Are you Sitting comfortably?

Hi STW

Just wondering has the design of the seating on the RL and SRL been sorted yet?

Reason for asking is I have just seen your offer on the 4" bowser so not sure which way to go with the seating.

Hi Lynn,

No the seating hasn't been decided yet.

According to Steve is doesn't matter though as a bowser would be a useful addition to have and will fit regardless.

All the best

Dean

Hi Dean

Can you take a picture of the SRL with the bowser attached so I can see how it looks?

Hi Lynn,

I have to disagree with Dean on the Bowser. I spoke Steve about this. Because the DCC wheels are larger than the 4" agricultural engine, the drawbar is at an angle to the towbar and restricts the lock due to the design. The drawbar is made from "c" section channel with the front portion angled back and therefore the sides cut away but this cutaway portion is not enough to allow a decent turning. Also the seat height clearance is not enough - it only just clears the bunker extension top and any uneven ground will have the seat base getting continually caught.

It appears to methat for the DCC you need bigger dimension bowser wheels or and extension for the seat height and drawbar modification to succesfully use it on our engines.

Sorry STW for brining the bad news but it does need to be looked at before someone innocently orders one as I did and it just doesn't work as it is for the DCC engines. I'm thinking of cutting the seat part off the bowser and towing it behind the trailer when this is available.

cheers

Rick

Hi All

The benefit of the bowser on the Agricultural Engine, other than the obvious one of carrying addition water, is that it shares the drivers weight between the rear axle of the engine and the one on the bowser. The Agricultural engine has a tendency to ‘wheelie’ when starting off unless the driver is very light indeed.

The Showmans and the Road Loco, to a lesser extent, will not suffer from this because of the additional weight of the engine. Indeed, I think the Showmans engine will be able to accommodate two reasonably sized adults on the back.

So for these two engines the bowser looses part of its appeal, but nevertheless is still a very worthwhile addition. Once you’ve done a couple of road runs without one you’ll soon realize the benefit!

Normally bowsers would always have been towed behind anything else that the engine was pulling, so Ricks intention to tow it behind the Traction Wagon is absolutely right. I think the sight of one of these engines pulling a trailer (or two or three!!) plus the bowser will be an incredible and unforgettable spectacle.

Regards

Steve

Great minds must think alike as I was considering getting one when looking at the weekend. Not decided yet if I will get one now or invest the tax rebate in a few additional kits to start to catch up with the rest of you over the summer.

Have seen a number of engines wheelie, as I am sure most of us have, and it's not very Elegant. Concerned though if the seat would catch on the bunker and at best damage the paintwork. But I'm sure there is a way round it.

photos here https://traction.forumotion.com/t666-4-inch-water-bowser

Thanks Craig looks good and if there is a problem with the seat catching it looks like thee is an easy fix

I like the idea of a twin seat arrangement fitted on the back of the tender. I currently have a deposit down on a bowser but i am beginning to wonder if I should hold off this and go for the new heavier style wagon and build a bespoke seat instead.

I was going to see if you could modify the bowser for two seats but I see the issues with it on the DCC re seat height and turning restrictions. I agree with Rick that this addition is best left to the single crank unless redesigned for the DCC. Maybe the new wagon could have a seating idea that fits onto the draw bar? This would also aid with weight distribution, the seat can be wide-enough for two bums and there will be enough leg room when turning which was another concern with the bowser on the DCC.

I have also surmised the wheelie issue and as my engine wont have the benefit of a dynamo for ballast at the front I thought of a counter weight option possibly made from lead which can be dropped into the bottom of the smokebox.

As the months roll forward it will be interesting to see what ideas are put forward. A nice cushioned bench seat across the back would be ideal. Keeping you as low as you can to assist in driving.

Hello All,

The idea of a bowser or trailer is a great suggestion. However, will you need to cut away the roof on the engine to allow for the additional distance between you and the steering wheel?

Personally, having recently driven an engine with a roof, the 'sun roof' option would be a good idea as standard, never mind those sitting further away from the engine.

What do other people think?

All the best,

Brian M

I have already tried both myself and my wife sitting on the back of the engine on a plank of wood and bounced up and down and there is no movement on the front perch at all and this is without the cylinder and all its components and the water in the belly tank to act as ballast.

I suggest there will be no issues at all with an twin seat arrangement on the RL and will actively persue this idea as myself and my boy will want to drive this together. The arrangement I have on the current 4" is avery simple design and could easily be adapted or modified to accomodate two and still retains the bunker extension, an important inclusion I feel to make the enigine look complete.

Kev.

highpressure wrote:I have already tried both myself and my wife sitting on the back of the engine on a plank of wood and bounced up and down and there is no movement on the front perch at all and this is without the cylinder and all its components and the water in the belly tank to act as ballast.

I suggest there will be no issues at all with an twin seat arrangement on the RL and will actively persue this idea as myself and my boy will want to drive this together. The arrangement I have on the current 4" is avery simple design and could easily be adapted or modified to accomodate two and still retains the bunker extension, an important inclusion I feel to make the enigine look complete.

Kev.

I thought as much.
I'll await your creation then Kev.....
Nick

I was at Preston, East Kent last month and there was a 4" Maclaren RL - basically the same as ours, and this had a bench seat across with two on it comfortably. There was no evidence at all of any tendency to wheelie when starting off or going up hill. Looked solid as a rock. There's a photo here, it's not a close up but you can see how relaxed it all looks.

Hi

I have been thinking, yes I know it is dangerous.

I am going to purchase the bowser and leave the seat on. I will be using the seat from STW or maybe modified to a 2 seat arrangement. I plan to have at least one traction wagon and put the bowser at the end where it would be in real life, this also means no problem with clearances. By utilizing the tender mounted seat it will allow easy driving without trailers i.e. reversing the loco up the drive or doing a 3 point turn at the top and playing in the street. By leaving the seat on the bowser and having a twin on the tender I can take sisters little one on the tender seat (with seat belt) and sister can sit on bowser.

Having driven a loco last weekend with a trailer seat and quite high up. I found the reaching over quite tiresome so hope the supplied seat is quite low.

Despite being tall, I like sitting quite low on the engine, especially if a cab is fitted (sorry awning as it’s a Burrell). I had devised a reversed ‘S’ which sat between the top of the bunker and the tow bar with the foot rests projecting under the curvature of the back tank if that makes sense? Allowing for a lower driving position to access the foot plate from behind rather than above, suspended from the bunker yet fixed on the tow bar.

You may also find that an extension to the Regulator is required to ease the stretch on driving, with or without a ‘sun roof’.

http://www.tractiontalkforum.com/album.php?albumid=248&pictureid=3168

Some of us are now getting ever closer to moving the engines under steam.
I was wondering I anymore thought had gone into the seating arrangements other than using a bowser or trolley.

I have recently tested two adults hanging off the back of the tender on the RL. I estimated the weight as around 20st and the front end showed no sign of lifting even with a little
Help simulating the hurl of setting off under steam.

This was done without water tanks full so it shouldn't be an issue at all.

This will allow for a twin bench seat accross the back which if designed correctly could attach simply and quickly.

If anyone out there has the solution please share.

Nick

i agree, i had something like that in mind also. if you look at this clip of a friend of mine from back home at approx the 45 second mark you will see a double seat across the coal tender of the 4inch foster road loco that they used to own. she never had any trouble with the front rising with 2 adults either...
foster

I have been thinking about such things too.

a twin seat behind or on top of the tender,if its on top wouldnt it restrict getting coal out of the bunker though ?

What about putting a bench type seat on the STW bowser,if you have one.im sure it could be made to work if the bowser chassis could take the extra strain that is.

Kev

Kevster wrote:I have been thinking about such things too.

a twin seat behind or on top of the tender,if its on top wouldnt it restrict getting coal out of the bunker though ?

What about putting a bench type seat on the STW bowser,if you have one.im sure it could be made to work if the bowser chassis could take the extra strain that is.

Kev

your right about the seat over the coal bunker as it would restrict feeding the fire on a road run. It would be ok for one person but you couldn't do two persons as the back wheels will get in the way of your legs.

The bowser is a nice idea but this pivots from the back of the engine and if your sitting to one side when you turn you will be to far away from the controls to be of any use..

The best solution is to have a bench seat that hangs from the top of the bunker extension and rests on the tow pin bracket. The frame could be made from lightweight square bar and welded together or bolted up so it can be packed away. Then all you need is a nice padded bench seat wide enough for two adult bottoms.

It could even be an extra from STW if steve fancies designing one

This might be just what we need

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zSdG8zZbCHI

Kevster wrote:This might be just what we need

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zSdG8zZbCHI

thats the same engine!

From my static experiments, you definitely want to be sat below the bunker top, probably at the level of the tender top (without the extension piece). A two seat engine is one of the main attractions for the SRL(S) for me. I have a Land Rover bench seat that is the exact width of the engine, is made with excellent foam, has a back and should make a very comfortable arrangement. I think a regulator extension will be a must for comfortable road driving.

Attaching a seat to the bowser is not necessary on the RLs, whilst an attached bench would probably not work at all because of the turning geometry: legs could get caught quite badly.

Tim

The double seat on the bowser is a no go then .

So level with the tender top(not bunker extension ) is the way to go.
I do like the idea of getting the seat as low down as practicable so Im sitting behind the engine not perched up too high.

Are STW supplying a regulator extension or do we have to make our own ?


Kev

When I drove a road loco DCC a couple of years ago at Exbury it had a seat that was set about the height of tender top and seem to recall I found it not as comfortable as hoped. The bunker extension got in the way as it felt low and just didnt feel that the controls were easy on the body. I wont ditch the extension as I want to keep as much coal as poss on board and it just wont look right. If its not too difficult to make perhaps trying it in both positions would help. I am not too good at making metal stuff so was considering taking the engine to a local blacksmiths to get a seat bracket made. I was thinking about a curved bar which hooks over the top of the bunker extension and then has a tube which fits in the tow strap and then a bar passes through the tube to lock it into place with an R clip to keep it all in place. I can picture what I have described but it might not be clear to others. I might try and draw it or once made I will take some pictures. It will certainly be a two seater, I have also tried to see if the front will lift with a combined weight of at least 25 stones again without water on board and no sign of lift at all.

Sorry for the confusion, what I meant was with the seat at the level of the tender top, but with the bunker extension still in place. Easy enough to design the seat with it hooked over the bunker extension, but sat at a lower level. Tried this again yesterday after the postings. The seat may also need to be six or so inches back from the tender itself to allow some leg room. Make this distance too big and the problem then becomes one of reaching the steering wheel. Also useful to have a storage box for spare steam oil, tools etc. built into the seat bottom.

The real design challenge is that drivers & steersmen come in different lengths.

Tim