genral advice

hi All
I am about to start building a dcc loco and am new to all of this I do not have a engineering background and will be asking plenty of questions.
first post first question
starting with the wheels once built would I be right to apply 2 coats of grey primer then 1 coat of the undercoat to protect them until a later date or do they have to be finished once the painting process has started.

Hi Geoff, welcome on board, you will find lots of answers on this forum and everyone is happy to help out. I can only speak from my own experience. The front wheel I had lots of time and have taken them up to 1st top coat. With the rest of the build I have been struggling to find time, the two rear wheels both have primer on and one has a coat of under coat, the other that is just primer but doesn't have any issues, these wheels built back in May the shed they are in is quite damp free so that might help. I would say if you have the time get a primer coat on if possible. The other thing that is mentioned is to remove the masking tape as soon as possible, although I left my cheap Halford tape on one rear wheel for months and it came of really easy, that might have just been luck on my part.
Enjoy your build and look forward to see some photos.

Hi Geoff,
I second that. Whenever a (mayor) part was finished I put on primer and hi coat to prevent any rusting. Just remember some parts are a close fit and the paint layers might haunt you at a later date. I remember struggling to fit the second shaft into the hornplates due to too many layers of paint. And, yes, remove the masking tape as soon as possible.

Cheers

Elwood

thanks for the advice.
when I have looked at various engines the paint finish is immaculate do people achieve this with a brush or does it have to be sprayed.

Hi Geoff

Geoff wrote:thanks for the advice.
when I have looked at various engines the paint finish is immaculate do people achieve this with a brush or does it have to be sprayed.

This is a tough question to answer as several variables come into play.
Ambient temp, Humidity Environment quality, Ability, and paint quality to name a few.
Personally I brush paint wheels, I have tried to spray paint them with mixed results, but I am no sprayer.
The front wheels are much easier to spray as they are more open than the rears, I found it difficult to avoid over spray and the dull finish that gave.

Brush painting while very tedious gave me the best results, I use coach enamel and high quality brushes.
An inhibitor was useful in the summer to slow the drying and giving me time to work.
I made a couple of stands that allow me to have the wheels horizontal for painting, I have found starting on the back side and working from the hub out to the rim before flipping them over worked the best.

As it takes such a lot of work and tape to mask up before starting (I don't enjoy the masking) I tend to paint primer undercoat and top coat in as shorter time as drying time allows before removing the tape and putting them to one side for a couple of weeks before lining them.

The wheels are kits 1,4 & 5 but wont actually be needed until after kit 15 so you will have plenty of time to perfect them and the technique that suits you

Sorry that answer got a little long winded but that is what works for me and I have built over 30 wheels now and I still don't like painting them.

Good luck with your build, take your time and above all enjoy it OH! yes and don't forget to post some pictures.

Simon C

Thanks for that
I am starting to think maybe brush paint the wheels and spray the main parts. I have spoken to a local body shop they are happy to do that for me, maybe they would just spray the top coat not to sure how it works in the painting process. My concern is to protect the steel as the build goes on.

Hi Geoff,

Good plan to brush paint the wheels etc but have larger parts like tender and cladding painted by a car paint shop. But I would strongly suggest to discuss with them beforehand on which paint to use. I doubt they will like you to put primer etc on and they do the finsh coat(s) only as which paint will work with which base seems to be next to black magic. Better have them do the whole paint job. They are the professionals.
Just my five pence.

Cheers
Elwood

If you're thinking of getting it spray painted then make sure that whatever they spray it with will withstand the heat, a lot of modern car body paints won't last 5 minutes otherwise compared to traditional oil based paints.

the paint shop I spoke to said they would use a 2 pack commercial paint maybe that would be up to the mark I am not to sure but it is certainly something that has to be right.

hi All
I am using the craftmaster paint system ie 2 coats of primer followed by 2 coats of the highbuild undercoat and finished with the coach enamel
is the same system ok for the boiler.
Thanks for any advice.

Geoff wrote:hi All
I am using the craftmaster paint system ie 2 coats of primer followed by 2 coats of the highbuild undercoat and finished with the coach enamel
is the same system ok for the boiler.
Thanks for any advice.

Hi Geoff
Yes that will work.
The paint on the boiler will mostly be covered over by the cladding and hornplates, so its mainly for corrosion resistance.
The main areas to avoid getting paint on are the smoke box ring, any place that will need a gasket, the hornplate mounting stub ends and the area the fire box doors slide on.
Simon C

thanks Simon
Is the heat from the boiler not a issue with the paint thats used, I am planning to paint the boiler black will any part of the the boiler be on show when completed.
just to say i have just opened kit 1 and making a start on the wheels so the boiler is a bit down the line but I will be going to craftmaster paints in the new year and i want to know what to buy. A bit of forward planning.
Thanks in advance for any advice

Hi Geoff,

As you plan to visit Adam (Craftmaster Paint) anyways I‘d ask him about this topic. Frankly speaking I am not sure if the coach paint will withstand about 200 deg. C (180 psi equals almost 200 C water/steam temperature).

For Pied Piper‘s boiler I used his High Temperature paint. In the end you do not see too much of the boiler itself anyways, the most prominent and visible area, as Simon has pointed out, is the back head with the fire door,

But again, I would trust Adams advice, he knows his paints

Just my five pence

Elwood

thanks I will do that

Geoff wrote:thanks Simon
Is the heat from the boiler not a issue  with the paint thats used, I am planning to paint the boiler black will any part of the the boiler be on show when completed.


just to say i have just opened kit 1 and making a start on the wheels so the boiler is a bit down the line but I will be going to craftmaster paints in the new year and i want to know what to buy. A bit of forward planning.
            Thanks in advance for any advice

As Elwood said the temperature of the boiler will be just under 200c so good quality paint is a must.
Personal I use the coach paint on the boiler and have not had any issues with it.
I cant speak for the craftmaster paint as I have not used it but it does boast that it is good for 200c so should be OK on the boiler and cylinder block.
High temp engine paint (Halfords) is good for 200c but it discolors on the first fire up when used on the smoke box door ring.
I use stove paint (rattle can)on the smoke box, chimney and ash pan as it is said to be good for over 600c, others have used barbecue paint but I could only find that in mat black and I required a satin finish.

The DCC boiler will be seen a little on the back head around the fire box doors.
This is from My SCC build ( https://traction.forumotion.com/t3374-lock-down-3-still-stuck-at-home ) but the DCC is very similar.
The other area is between the spectacle plates but most of that is covered by the crank shaft and all the parts connected to it.
I would have taken pictures of my DCC but it is in deep hibernation at the moment and its not easy to get to it.

Simon C

happy new year to you all
thanks for the replies great help to me
I have got both front wheels ready for painting with the exception of one rivet bolt as i snapped one on tightening needed 84 got 84 now 1 short.
I have now started on kit 3 the front axle has some deep gouges from the casting process which I think will have to be filled before sanding up (was going to use J B weld)
on the pivot and the perch castings how much cleaning do you have to do before paint and what is the best way to do it ?
All advice appreciated

Hi Geoff
Happy new year.   If you put the part number for the rivet bolts (BU40110) in to google it will find the rivet bolts in the STW shop so you can order extras.

I think it said in the kit 3 build instructions, something about if the original engine had a casting then your engine will have one.
The original engines would have just painted over them, that said removing any sharp fletchings from the castings is a given and should be done with a file or a flap disc.
I use a rotary wire brush on the larger castings that don't fit in my sandblaster and that seems to work well.
As cast is porous it tends to soak up cutting oil from the machining processes that then leaches back out when you paint them, this also happens on the wheel rims around the welds and rivet heads.
Brake cleaner or cellulose thinner will remove most of it before painting.
You have said you are going to use Craftmaster paint ? I don’t use it but they will probably be able to supply panel wipe that will do the job.

As for filling the gouges I use a car body filler P38 or similar mainly because I have more experience with it than the JB weld.
I have seen Facebook posts that the builders swear by the JB weld for wheel building and filling so it can’t be all that bad.
Hope all this drivel helps You decide on what route to take.
Simon C ( a full roofer )

all that helps alot thanks Simon

hi all
thinking of rust-oleum heat resistant paint for the smoke box and the boiler its good for constant 600oC and will stand 750oC for short periods also known as hard hat. Has anybody had any experience with this paint?

Geoff wrote:hi all
thinking of  rust-oleum heat resistant paint for the smoke box and the boiler its good for constant 600oC and will stand 750oC for short periods also known as hard hat. Has anybody had any experience with this paint?

Don't get hung up on high temp paint. The boiler barrel will stay below 200°C as the water jacked in the boiler at 180psi will only get to 193°C
Paint on the smokebox and chimney are classed as consumable. I have seen engines with expensive HT paint burn off in the first day. Where cheap B&Q BBQ paint lasts a whole season and every combo in between

Lynn@STW wrote: Where cheap B&Q BBQ paint lasts a whole season and every combo in between

Yup, seconded, gave my Agri smoke box a puff over with some cheap bog standard high temp black stove paint and its been good for 5yrs since I had to touch it up.

HI ALL
I have got the smoke box, chimney all painted up in black heat paint. What do I do with the name plates all is going well but I am a little bit stuck with the brass plates. Any advice would be gratefully accepted.
Thanks