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6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth

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6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth Empty 6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth

Post  GeorgeTB Sun 14 Feb 2021, 5:55 pm

Well - here we go then! Something I never thought I would be saying but between myself, my wife and my grandfather we are going to build a 6" Foden C type. It will be named Elizabeth after my late Nan, who is the one responsible for the steam fix. Yesterday was the big day of finally getting the kits back home from storage - it would have been a lot sooner but I won't go into reasons why not - but finally the workshop is completed enough to get them home.

We were lucky enough to be able to acquire all of the kits in one go - part of that was due to timing but mainly due to the fact I want my grandfather to see it, and given his advancing years we thought it best to have them in one lump to try to get through the build as quickly as possible. After all - he'll definitely want to see it in steam!! For the most part I will be following the normal kit-by-kit approach on the build as recommended by Dean, but with some chances to expedite things a little quicker; for example all 4 wheels can be processed and painted in one batch rather than waiting for each kit to arrive.


I'll be trying to maintain a build log to give something back - I've been a long term forum reader before registering and the build threads on this forum were a MAJOR part in finally taking the plunge - special thanks go to the Crystal, Frederick and Black Beard threads but I've read most on here and all have been appreciated.

Today I've mainly been opening the first few boxes to work out what I've got to do, what tools I will need, and a large amount of online shopping. All early paint requirements, the few tools I didn't have, and some other consumables are now on their way and it won't be long before I can start in earnest. I've a few jobs ongoing to finish before I can start really focusing on it; My tractor needs some final fettling which will be done alongside the Foden, and the garden is currently in the process of having a lot of pathing put down to help my grandfather get around easier.

The chassis members have caught me out - they're wider than I thought when spaced properly so my stands won't hold the assembled chassis. One of my projects this week will be to make some wooden extensions and then maybe top these with foam. That way I should be able to assemble/paint without doing too much damage.
6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth 0RquJhA

And a quick go through the box of goodies that is Kit 1
6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth LsIHnBD

(Hopefully I've worked out the whole image hosting thing - I can see them, please let me know if you cannot!)
GeorgeTB
GeorgeTB

Number of posts : 18
Age : 29
Location : West Midlands
Registration date : 2020-06-28

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Post  lynnr Mon 15 Feb 2021, 3:07 pm

Hi

Welcome aboard. Hope you enjoy the build and I am glad Crystal helped to push you over.

We all look forward to the build thread and it would be nice to get a 6" foden build with lots of pictures.
lynnr
lynnr

Number of posts : 3205
Age : 53
Location : Highland, 4inch showman
Registration date : 2010-08-06

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Post  Tinker Tue 16 Feb 2021, 8:06 am

Brilliant!!
Considering doing exactly that myself!!
Shall look forward to your progress!

Tinker

Number of posts : 3
Location : Kent
Registration date : 2017-08-23

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Post  Tinker Tue 16 Feb 2021, 8:07 am

Love the fergie!!

Tinker

Number of posts : 3
Location : Kent
Registration date : 2017-08-23

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Post  GeorgeTB Tue 16 Feb 2021, 9:07 am

Tinker wrote:Love the fergie!!

Thanks Tinker - she isn't finished yet, but is about 90% done. Previously I was doing the restoration of the tractor in a canvas garage, with a battery work lamp and on uneven slabs. The need to get the workshop finished has meant she hasn't been receiving the love she deserves and got thrown together at the very end to move out of the way. The new workshop is much better - when I walk in now and the floor is flat(ish), there aren't parts everywhere. It's been a lot of work but hopefully it'll be worth it for building the Foden.

Outstanding on the tractor is a range of paint touching up where things got dinked on assembly, a few little repairs to some leaks, and finish painting the bonnet properly along side fitting the front lights. When I start doing the painting prep on the chassis for the Foden it's a natural time to do things side by side so it shouldn't be too long and then they'll maybe appearing together at shows in due course. I need to work out transportation for the Foden given it's weight (our existing car won't do it and we need to ponder rally accommodation) but I do have a fledgling ideas that for the very local shows the tractor could do the work Shocked . All pie in the sky for now but it's nice to dream.
GeorgeTB
GeorgeTB

Number of posts : 18
Age : 29
Location : West Midlands
Registration date : 2020-06-28

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Post  Tinker Tue 16 Feb 2021, 10:17 am

Thanks for the reply,
I learned to drive on a fergie aged four! Actually owned one when we lived in Devon! Sadly sold it and moved to Kent!!☹
Good luck with the Foden!!
Envy you!!

Tinker

Number of posts : 3
Location : Kent
Registration date : 2017-08-23

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Post  moztech Tue 16 Feb 2021, 9:10 pm

Welcome to the gang from another 6" Foden builder who knows he really should have posted more myself having referred to Bill's SWB build many times.

One tip is that we decided to build ours on 2 pairs of car ramps with each wheel ratchet strapped to the ramp. A decision which has paid us dividends many times over by virtue of being a more accommodating height to work at and also to get underneath when required.

Enjoy

moztech

Number of posts : 3
Location : Sussex, UK
Registration date : 2019-02-02

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Post  GeorgeTB Wed 17 Feb 2021, 8:20 am

Thanks Moztech - that's really helpful actually as I was wondering about access underneath and it being tight for building. I do have one set of ramps so I will bear that in mind and ponder getting a second set! I've also spent a lot of time referring to Bill's SWB build, both before purchase and after.

Last night my wife and I put together the chassis dry. Everything was a really good fit so far; the only exception being the slipper plates for the springs which needed some filing to fit their brackets. This was easily achieved. The clean up and painting of this engine is going to be significant, especially at this stage. When we get a good weather day I will carry the pieces outside to wire brush them on the yard. I don't plan on posting updates quite this often, as most of a build is going to be minimal-visible-process such as flatting and applying paint. But the dry-assembled chassis was so impressive I just had to:

6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth GwvYex3

Our plan for the colour scheme at the moment is a green cab and body, with red chassis and wheels. We narrowed our green choice between Mid Brunswick - because it was the colour of my grandad's long-since-sold Foden S21 lorry, and Union Green, which we liked when studying Craftmaster's colour charts as a slightly brighter alternative. Our order includes a small pot of each, which I will paint onto a piece of metal sheet to compare before we make a final decision.

A quick question for the experienced builders - how much painting did you do on the mating surfaces of parts going together? Did you do a full paint, and scrape back off if required, or did you instead just do primer and paint the whole assembly? I want to avoid the risk of oozing paint (which the instructions warn about) AND the risk of rust leaking if water got between if only primer was in the joints. At the moment I reckon the best is to not go for a full paint build (which will likely be 1+2+3 primer-under-top) but to make sure that there is at least one topcoat between parts for protection. It isn't a problem that was encountered on the tractor, where mating surfaces are normally gasketed.
GeorgeTB
GeorgeTB

Number of posts : 18
Age : 29
Location : West Midlands
Registration date : 2020-06-28

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Post  moztech Tue 09 Mar 2021, 11:41 pm

I'm not sure what others have done on the paint front, I've used brushed Craftmaster 1+2+3 similar to what you're planning by the sound of it. We ensured that all surfaces at least had a primer on them and in general painted the items up to and including gloss prior to assembly because they are often fiddly to get at once assembled and if items are painted in situ then there is no chance of them parting again without major paint surgery and we've often had to dissassemble and re-assemble painted components some months down the line.
However, the caveat is that we often found that with even a thin layer of paint on the surfaces some items (e.g. the rear spring hangers I can see in your photo) would not mate correctly and have often had to grind back to bare metal (or in some cases take a little off the bare metal surface).
Despite having spent many hours toiling over the paintwork I'm far from happy with my current finish so hope you have better luck in this regard.

moztech

Number of posts : 3
Location : Sussex, UK
Registration date : 2019-02-02

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Post  GeorgeTB Thu 06 May 2021, 8:04 am

Good morning everyone,

It's been a long time since I've been able to post an update but that is largely due to the Foden taking second fiddle to all those little jobs which need to be done. The tractor is finally 99% there, and all of the paths laid for my Grandad in the garden. What's more, although my builders still remain largely absent I did get them back long enough to put steps down to the workshop meaning there's less of a gauntlet to run to get down there. All this means I've finally had some time to get on with the engine recently.

On Dean's advice we intend to continue with the build order of the kits as this will prevent making mistakes later and remains methodical, although there are some time economies that I can make by having all things at hand. So - the first task was the wholesale wire brushing/flap disking of the chassis. The picture below shows before and after - this took a very long period of time to complete all of the relevant parts and I have a passionate dislike for wire brushing given I took all of the tractor back to bare metal in the same way. You'll notice the white circles on the uncleaned chassis member: those mark the channel stampings on the chassis which I ground out using my not-a-Dremel so they wouldn't be obvious.
6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth DzjbuZN

Having wire brushed the chassis I decided I would try the brick acid trick for some of the other items. Largely I didn't get on with it - I found that despite all of my rinsing straight away I simply couldn't stop the rust blooming over it. Whilst it undoubtedly made a difference to how easy it was to wire brush I think the combined time was more, so in the future I think the wire brush will be the answer. I did this approach on the springs and the small chassis member parts at the same time. This is how the rear springs came out once cleaned and re-assembled. I chose not to paint between the leaves in the end - something I am glad of as they're a very tight fit, particularly the front one back into it's bracket.
6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth Cy1YAxQ

Once cleaned up all the small parts were first sprayed in an etch primer for ease of getting into all the relevant surfaces. At this point I decided I would rather assemble and paint the chassis as a whole and not individually so I spray painted all of the mating surfaces in gloss so that when assembled they would be rust-protected. In hindsight for the rest of the kits I intend to paint separately and assemble gently as it has made painting more challenging, but you live and learn. The small parts with their spray glossed surface is below.
6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth EOEIu69

The detail in the chassis is amazing, and whilst I found hammering in the rivet bolts to be a bit of a faff it is definitely worth it. The bracketry on show looks second-to-none and it is these details that really make you appreciate the kits.
6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth Bfq50XN

And with the chassis all assembled it is time for paint. The picture shows the chassis at the end of a significant amount of primer and undercoat. It has since been flatted and had it's first gloss coat. I am brush painting for the most part, mating surfaces and etch primer excepted, so there is lots of flatting down to come. As it stands gloss coat number 2 should go on this weekend, with the chassis flatted ready. I rope my wife in to help with the glossing as it takes ages to get around all of the small surfaces/angles. Again, hindsight has 20-20 vision! The springs are currently still in undercoat as I wanted to give them longer to harden off given they'll be flexing in use, but they'll get their first coat of gloss this weekend as well.
6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth Swfo4EW

The inclement weather means I often struggle to paint - even though my workshop is heated this is done via blown air heating which circulates dust - so it means any top coat work has to be postponed for good weather so I can sweep up, damp the floor, and prevent as much dust as possible in the paint. In a period of bad weather I decided I would open the wheel kit and start on the hub caps.  This before and after shows most of the progress; I have since buffed them again on the polishing spindle which has removed the small surface scratches you can see on the polished one. They're far from perfect but they still look very good so I am happy. It probably took me around 1.5-2 hours per hub cap to get them polished up but luckily some of that time can be spent watching telly or similar.
6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth 49b9cwA

Of late my attention has gone to the wheels - as the recent wet and cold spell has prevented painting as above. Sadly the back left wheel (pictured) looks like it has had a hard life already - these marks are on the outside face so would be seen and are on almost every spoke. It appears almost like it has gone into the machine wrong but it cannot be a lathe as it would have taken everything off rather than cutting to an extent and stopping. Either way, a quick email to Will confirmed that the wheel won't be negatively affected by this which was great news. I've now ground these out with a rotary burr tool on a drill - the rotary burrs tools are a bit fierce, but it does the job in those hard-to-reach places that a normal file won't go. I am now awaiting some JB weld epoxy putty to be delivered which I will use to fill the notches and which I should be able to shape to complete the spokes to the correct profile. When that is done I will sand to match and hopefully no one will know when it is all painted up.
6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth RbNAdjN

One of the economies of scale I can make is to prepare all of the wheels at the same time, which is good. The downside of that means that I am currently on hour 7 of hand-filing the inner edges of the holes in the wheels. The picture shows the outcome, the left hand side having been filed back and the right hand side yet to go. The front wheels, as pictured below, are much easier to file as they have a straight through hole. If you compare it to the rear wheels (picture above) some of the holes are harder to file due to the larger flange and the lugs for the brakes. I've got one rear wheel to finish, likely tonight, and then as soon as the weather allows I will be wire brushing the surfaces of the wheels, flap disking the rubber off of the edges and then spraying etch primer to key the aluminium for the remaining paint.
6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth HF0efTx

So far, despite the tedium in places with hand-filing, I am really enjoying the build. I am also hoping I can now speed up progress somewhat with the tractor being completed so I hope to be able to give smaller, more regular, updates! I want to give a shout out to the customer service - every time I have had a question Will has responded to my emails within a couple of hours maximum, or first thing in the morning if outside of working hours - which has really helped put my mind at ease. It also transpired I had been sent the wrong retainer in one of my kits and this was rectified sent out straight away. One very happy builder/owner right there Smile
GeorgeTB
GeorgeTB

Number of posts : 18
Age : 29
Location : West Midlands
Registration date : 2020-06-28

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Post  Steam Traction World Fri 07 May 2021, 1:51 pm

Welcome to the STW family of builders, everyone here wishes you all the best with the build.

Thanks for posting on the forum. Your experiences will not only make interesting reading they will give old, new and potential customers an insight to what is involved.

Enjoy.


Dean & all the staff at STW.

P.S. I've moved your topic into the Foden 6" section (hope that's ok) and will look forward to seeing the finished pics in the 'photo' section in the future.

Steam Traction World
Admin

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Location : Daventry UK
Registration date : 2008-06-18

http://www.steamtractionworld.co.uk

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Post  GeorgeTB Mon 17 May 2021, 8:57 am

Thanks Dean & Co - no problem with being over here in the 6" section!

So lately I have been working on the wheels between the weather. Due to wanting to prevent too much dust in the workshop I need good weather to wire brush the wheels but on-and-off I have managed to get it done. This has been a real combination - the grinder with a wire brush cup disc, my big wired drill with a pencil wire brush, hand files and also the rotary burr tools in my battery drill. I've got a reasonable finish I think - I can become a bit of a perfectionist and I need to be realistic; they are a casting and so they should also look like a casting. So I've had a good go but not been over-zealous.

The first stage of the wheels was to go around the inner faces and hand-file away the sprue in between the spokes. Then, taking the wheels outside, they need wire brushing. This starts with the grinder, taking the larger spaces and the gaps which the cup disc does fit into. Then, into the corners and tight places with the drill wire brush which is finer and easier to angle. Finally, using the rotary burr tool I ground off any remaining high points which I deemed "excessive" for the finish I wanted, and around all of the spoke edges to get them looking uniform. Overall, I am quite happy with the results.

The first picture shows the wheels mid-way through the process. The left hand side having received attention firstly by being hand sanded, and then been brushed with the grinder wire brush, the right hand side being untouched. I haven't yet done the drill wire brushing, so you can see some of the harder-to-reach parts. In particular, the rear wheels were problematic due to the brake drum lugs but with enough persistence I got there.
6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth T44m6Ze

Having done all the wire brushing, it's then dust removal. Firstly, a good roll around of the wheel to get the large dust out, then a wipe down with a rag and panel wipe took off the remaining dust. Finally, once that was dry, I use a spray etching primer. I did try brushing but I found the fumes to be unpleasant (even outside!) and the spray was much easier to get into all the nooks/crannies. Given the wheels are aluminium, etch primer is a must to get good paint key. Here we see all four wheels in a row, and if you look closely you'll see you see each face of each wheel. From left to right: Rear wheel inside face, Front wheel inside, Front wheel outside, rear wheel outside.
6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth IgrWZvU

Before I start undercoating the wheels I need to fix those ding marks I discussed in my last post. The epoxy putty is hard to work with but absolutely rock solid - seen here before I have filed it to match the profile of the wheel. Once I have finished this job and sanded to the correct profile these wheels will get a good number of paint coats.
6" Foden C Type - Elizabeth Xh2BIUn

Currently the following kits are ongoing:
kit 1 (chassis) awaiting rub down and final top coat
Kit 2 (springs), awaiting rub down and first top coat now that the undercoat has had time to harden
Kits 3-6 (wheels), awaiting epoxy putty work before undercoating.

My plan is to finish the chassis and putty (hopefully this week) in the wheels, and then begin towards the end of this week/weekend to get the undercoat on. Once that is done, I will be looking at dry fitting kits 7, 8 and possibly 9. These being the front axle, rear axle boxes, and rear axle, and should I believe get the Foden to an unbraked chassis on it's own wheels.
GeorgeTB
GeorgeTB

Number of posts : 18
Age : 29
Location : West Midlands
Registration date : 2020-06-28

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