Honest Advice/Opinions

Hi People,

I've been reading this forum now for a couple of years, it's been interesting and educational. Finally I am looking to place an order for a 4" DCC Road Loco. I am looking for your real world advice/opinions on embarking on this project.

I am a retired Instrument Electrical Engineer with 40 years in the Petrochemical Industry. I'm technically orientated and pretty handy.

My questions to you all if I may are:-

1. I have a single garage, a bench, bench grinder, hand grinder, electric hand drill and a basic set of hand tools. The description of the kits would indicate this is sufficient to put the kit together but is it realistic? I accept I will have to purchase a number of additional items etc but will I in reality require a lathe, a mill or similar 'large' outlay piece of kit?
2. If you were in my position of having not started down the path of building a kit, knowing what you know now would you go ahead with the purchase/build of a kit?
3. If you have completed a kit would you do it again?

I realise I am not putting Lego together but I am looking to enjoy the build not spend inordinate amounts of time remediating kit errors.

Any comments/opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Stewart

Hi Steward,

First of all welcome.

to answer your questions:

0. i have a background in mechanical engineering -  mainly construction macines. I started in honest before my retirement, which happened in the end just when i was finished with Pied Piper.
1. Same here, 1 car garage with 2 workbenches one dirty and cluttered and one not so cluttered, plus a assortment of hand tools and some electric tools (drill, angle grinder etc.). Somewhere else you find a complete list of tools required and/or nice to have. In my workshop there is no lathe nor mill (unfortunately) but so far I did not miss it, really. I have to confess I had a friend fabricate some parts for me on his lathe but they were only cosmetic (like replacing normal steel by stainless). I can easily put all of them in my hand, so no big deal. It would be nice to have a full blown workshop with all the tools needed but I do lack the place, fundings and maybe also the skill to make much use of it anyways.
2.+3) a absolute yes in both cases. I do not know about you but I did not fancy buying somebody elses "dream" maybe I just did not find one I liked. With the kit I was able to build "MY" machine, but did not have to go down the path of building one from scratch (cast parts ) But government would not let me build another one, nor do I have space for itr anyways...

Timescale: If you are retiired and do it as a 9 - 5 job 5 days a week, you could be finished by end of the year (kits availability provided), people have domne it in less than that. Or, like me, one step at a time (about 1 - 2 h most of every evenening and some saturdays for longer jobs). Took me less than 3 years for first run with compressed air and 3,5 years for first test steaming. But again it's a hobby not a job, no dealine to reach.

So, all in all, don't wait, go ahead.

Hope this helps, else just ask.

Chweers

Elwood

Rosss wrote:

I realise I am not putting Lego together but I am looking to enjoy the build not spend inordinate amounts of time remediating kit errors.

To be fair when ever I've heard or seen kit errors STW are quick to resolve them

If you look at the odd errors and compare them to the number of parts and number of kits sent out the actual error rate I suspect is very low.

I will say I'm a player rather than a builder and would never consider building one as I wouldn't have the patience but I love watching and following the builders

I built Crystal my showman’s in a single garage with only hand tools. Then repaired and or finished a few more DCC engines along side my own engine.

Read and reread the instructions. Most models are now fairly mature. Yes errors do creep in as in any production process, but are dealt with quickly.

I would love to build another model but finances at the moment are poor and health issues make life difficult.

Hi Stewart
I purchased my first engine back in 2016, it was the DCC showmans.
At the time of the build STW were reworking the dynamo so there were some delays to finishing the engine.
Unhappy as I was with having nothing to do I ordered the then brand new roller.
I can only bring to mind 2 problems in this build, some further machining on the crankshaft carried out by STW and a problem with the water pump conrod.
Both of these problems were sorted out within a few days and the corrections made so they will not be a problem for future builders.
Just as the first of the covid travel restrictions hit I found at a dealers an unfinished 2" STW engine that had never been steamed.
This little engine needed to be completley striped down and mechanically sorting as well as repainting,
as elwood phrased it I had purchased someone else's dream, and it was a train wreck.
I am nearing the end of a SCC build at the moment and will hopefully have it ready for air this weekend.
In my time building my 4 STW engines I have not as yet required the use a lathe or a milling machine, I will say at this point as a "full roofer"
I have been accused of having a love affair with my buffing wheel but others have done there polishing in front of the TV at night.
I have built at least one of each of their trailers also with no dramas. All of them worthwhile additions to the engines.
All of the above was done in my garage which has gotten to be a progressively smaller work area as i have gone on.
Just to finish off I have also spent the last 40 years in electrical engineering and would assume we have a similar skill set to each other.
" GO FOR IT " and happy building.

Simon C (A STW Addict)

Hi People,

Thank you very much for your prompt informative replies, all positive so far which is good news. Your convincing me!

Hi Elwood

Thank you for the welcome and your offer of help, most appreciated. Good to hear you succeeded with similar facilities as myself and that you would do it all again. As you say with respect to someone else's "dream". I want to enjoy building it myself, I can say I built it and also if I build it I will know how to fix it when it goes wrong!

I plan to work on it a few hours a week whenever I can. My garage is unheated so, if its practical, I would do the garage (large?) stuff in the summer and maybe collect a number of small jobs that can be done indoor in the winter so it will take me a while to complete it.

Your convincing me to go for it!


Hi LiveSteam

Having been reading the forum for a while now I would agree that the majority of issues are remediated pretty quickly which is good to see. For me you've hit the nail on the head when you said "would never consider building one as I wouldn't have the patience" that is what I'm worried about. I have the patience and commitment for most things but paying what I'm paying and coming up against factory issues repeatedly may wear me down! Hence trying to sound out people who have done it and what the reality is. Are my expectations too high or am I over concerned about nothing?


Hi Lynnr

Thank you for your input. I like what you're telling me! Great to hear, like elwood-59 said, that it is possible with the minimum facilities. As you say, errors do creep in but I hope all the design issues are resolved by now. I do hope your circumstances take a turn for the better and you can build another or get out and about with Crystal now that Covid seems to be receding.


Hi Simon C,

You definitely are a glutton for punishment! It gives me confidence to hear, like lynnr, that you enjoyed the builds enough that you built multiple models/varieties. Its good to know that as well as factory support there is such a wealth of knowledge on this forum from people who have got their hands dirty and 'walked the talk'.

I hope your SCC test goes well this weekend.

Rosss wrote:
Hi LiveSteam

Having been reading the forum for a while now I would agree that the majority of issues are remediated pretty quickly which is good to see. For me you've hit the nail on the head when you said "would never consider building one as I wouldn't have the patience" that is what I'm worried about. I have the patience and commitment for most things but paying what I'm paying and coming up against factory issues repeatedly may wear me down! Hence trying to sound out people who have done it and what the reality is. Are my expectations too high or am I over concerned about nothing?

Please dont think my comment has anything to do with any minor kit issues, it purely my own lack of commitment    and as I mentioned I'm a player and tinkerer rather than builder. For me the fun is lighting the fire and running the engine for hours upon hours, rather than hours of fitting a myriad of bolts around a tender or spending hours painting. But I totally appreciate those that do and I take my hat off to them without folks putting them together I wouldnt have an engine to play with

Hi Stewart,

I built my DCC RL in my admittedly double garage, with just hand tools accumulated over the years, No lathe or milling machine. Apart from a selection of spanners and socket sets a 1/4" socket set was really well used. the angle grinder with flap wheel discs was the most useful, for cleaning up the edges of the components to take the sharp corners off to help the paint stick. I brush painted the entire engine takes longer than spraying but again I did not have spray equipment. It was good enough to win Best in Show.
LynnL has listed a full list of tools she used and its very good. I found a metric tap n die set was useful for cleaning out paint from some of the threads. I should of blanked them off first!!!

Enjoy your build .

Ian

Hi Ian, thank you for your response and boost to my confidence! I am currently collecting/purchasing some of the tools you mention, I'll add the metric tap & die set, forgot about that. I'll search for LynnL list. I'm confident that I can muddle through the build but I've always thought the painting is my Achilles heel! Apart from house painting and a few rattle cans over the years I have no experience of spraying paint so I've been in two minds which way to go. Hand painting seemed the obvious way for me but was worried about a good finish but if your hand painted engine won best in show it shows what can be achieved and gives me something to aspire to!

Stewart

Hello Stewart,
I am hand painting my SCC using Craftmaster paint. I am using 2 coats of primer and then flat back with 400 wet and dry, then 2 coats undercoat flatted back with 800, then another final undercoat if necessary, flatted back. Then 2 or three top coats, flatted back each coat, except top coat, with 1200 grade. Always work the paint all directions quickly and finishing off with very light strokes downwards. Very important to have a top quality brush, I use a purdy 1 inch.
The secret is getting a really smooth surface before each coat. That means patience.
Happy painting
Tony

Hi tony.wheels,
Thank you very much for the brilliant advice! I am intending to use Craftmaster paints and sucked up a load of information from their site regarding the order to do things. My worry just now is painting in 'batches and starting and stopping building. Using a front wheel as an example, I clean the rim, hub and spokes up and assemble it. I then park it and do the second wheel, maybe even wait till I have built the rear wheels then paint all four wheels in short order. But how long can I park the wheels before they start to rust again so I emailed Craftmaster and asked if their primer was moisture proof with the intention of knocking a wheel together and giving it a quick lick of primer to protect it then move on the next wheel etc, etc. Adam from Craftmaster replied saying that I really need some coats of primer on and at least one coat of undercoat to satisfy my requirements, but without doing the minimum 2,2,2 he can't guarantee anything which I understand. I'm really just trying to avoid double work on cleaning spokes etc. On the other hand I'm maybe over reacting on how quick things might 're-rust' before I can get a top coat on them.

I think I'm just going to start by cleaning and building one wheel and observe how quickly rust forms on the clean metal and the work out the best plan of attack from there.

Stewart

Hello again Stewart,

I built each wheel seperately and then primed immediately with two coats, quick flat back and then one undercoat, as Craftmaster confirm. The primers are not waterproof and if you have even minimal damp around you can end up with bubbling of the top coat, if you do not seal the primer with an undercoat.
I would not leave a wheel for any length of time without this process as you have to derust and that takes more time.
I have found that by having one area to build and one to paint you can be building a wheel whilst paint is drying on another. It also makes the painting process less tedious.
Tony

Stewart,
Your question "how long can I park the wheels before they start to rust again"
This is one of those how long is that bit of string Questions,
What is the environment like where you will be storing them ? (airy)
Is it dry ?
Is it subject to rapid changes in temperature ? (gives rise to condensation)
Will they be in poly bags ? (Sealed)
I made up 4 wheels and left them in raw steel for almost 12 months without a single spot of rust on any of them.
They were cleaned by hand, not patio cleaner and stored in my spare bedroom.
A light rub with 400 grit paper before priming just to be sure they were good to go.
Hope this is helpful
Simon C

Hi tony.wheels,

Sounds like a sensible work process, my limited set up/facilities leads me to think I will follow the same process. I'll maybe take a serious look at my paint requirements and make a purchase earlier that I originally thought.

Again thanks for your input.

Stewart

Hi Simon C,

Yes my statement was a bit open ended! I'm building in a garage attached to my house with no heating. One wall is attached to my house, two are outside walls and a metal garage door for the 4th. Brick vents on the outside walls so basically the garage atmosphere will be similar to the outside atmosphere.

I could store the odd item in the house but 90% will have to stay in the garage. I had thought about trying to store cleaned up items in taped up plastic bags in the garage but wondered if the bags would just make matters worse in that environment.

I just took delivery of super duper strength brick cleaner today (18%). Do you think the cleaner contributes to the issue? I have read people mentioning that they use cleaner then rinse it off, they blink and there is a layer of rust!

My circumstances may drive me toward towards using the same process as tony.wheels.

Thanks for your input/advice. Its great to hear all the different processes to achieve the same end, gives me the option of using a hybrid of everyone's ideas.

Stewart

Certainly wouldnt advise bagging anything in plastic unless you can insure minimal/zero moisture is trapped in the bag with the items.

It might be worth doing a bit of work on the garage environment to reduce/mitigate the issue of rusting, you dont say if the metal door is the only entry/exit route, potentially you could add a bit of insulation to it and seal that better, brick vents are easy to deal with, then adding a dehumidifier in to reduce the humidity and that would also increase the temperature a little. Of course trying to improve the conditions will add a cost but may make your working environment nicer.

May be purchase a humidity/temp sensor to keep an eye on things. I bought one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/ThermoPro-Thermo-hygrometer-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Temperature/dp/B07G2YM494 for my garage/van which lives on/near the engine so I can keep an eye mainly on the temp so I know when I need to start thinking about using the tubular heater under it.
I've been well impressed with it, nice large display, happily transmits the data through the van or garage which is a good 10mtrs way through a wall or two and the metal van when the engines in that. Gives me a bit of piece of mind on whats going on when I'm tucked up in the warm.

Hi LiveSteam,

Apologies for the late response. Good idea, great advice. To get started without further delay I have decided to build both front wheels in my house. I'll do all the cleaning/grinding/filing/fettling in my garage but construct and store in my house until primer/undercoat. As they are smallish I have managed to make temporary space for them but will not manage to do the same with anything larger, but by that time I may have made improvements to my garage environment.

I planned to start cleaning and fettling spokes etc this weekend but a delivery failed to materialise. Disappointed I decided to cheer myself up by building a wheel using the parts straight out the box. I was pleasantly surprised when it all fitted together great. So I now have a completed wheel, seems a shame to take it all apart again!

One of the bearing bushes wouldn't fit so I left if off. Stupidly that messed me up. I was checking and double checking as I went to ensure no mistakes but POSSIBLY mixed up the bronze bushes AL283630 and AL283630MOD. First job tomorrow is to measure the bushes and see what the difference is and hopefully get them back in the correct bag. Went to great pains not to mix thing up and still did it!

Stewart

Morning Stewart.
The bush marked Mod has a radius cut on the inside of the flange end. The reason will become clear once you have your front axle.
Simon C

Hi Stewart,

I had the same issue with mixing up the bronze bushes AL283630 and AL283630MOD, but luckily had the axle to try them up against, after I was told about the radius cut
I will take a picture of mine tonight and you can then see the difference between the two if that helps.

Merv

Hi Simon and Merv,

Thank you for your response, I measured them all and the dimensions all seemed the same so I was a bit puzzled. I then noticed the curve vs sharp and wondered if that was the 'mod'? You both beat me to posting my question. Turns out I had not mixed them up! I'm just a bit edgy so as not to mess things up too early, I think my confidence will grow as I progress.

Stewart

Hi Stewart,

Glad you worked it out did try and post pictures on this link, but couldn't seem to get them to up load, where as on my own links it seems fine, like wise with the confidence issue, i just think that I am going to mess it up at every stage so taking things very slowly and dry fitting everything first.

Regards,

Merv