Rob & Tash Showmans
+35
gwr1475
Kiwiconnection
Jim the Shovel
Steve H
Mark the spark
Road loco
pemco
ChriX
SSGR
Rickster
showman shane
Heavyhaul
Capricorn1
LiveSteam
martinj
Brian M
MrStationHouse
the coleman
highpressure
ejparrott
iain
mikero
Steam Traction World
Graeme81
Tim Watson
Flasback
sonick45
Steve Traill
IanL
Kevster
Tony King
atomenter
bjwlancashire
lynnr
Robfishman
39 posters
Page 17 of 21
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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Rob,
Im not sure I have read this right but are you trying to get all three gears lined up all the way round?
This cant hapoen ,you only need one gear at a time .
Could be I have mis understood your explanation though.
Kev
Im not sure I have read this right but are you trying to get all three gears lined up all the way round?
This cant hapoen ,you only need one gear at a time .
Could be I have mis understood your explanation though.
Kev
Kevster- Number of posts : 424
Location : Hertfordshire 4 inch; DCC road loco
Registration date : 2011-01-27
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Thanks Kev
When I turn the flywheel in gear so all rotates I then can't change gear till the gold line is back at top dead centre. If this is correct then great but in my mind I should still be able to change gear otherwise I'll have to make sure I stop in exactly the right spot ?
When I turn the flywheel in gear so all rotates I then can't change gear till the gold line is back at top dead centre. If this is correct then great but in my mind I should still be able to change gear otherwise I'll have to make sure I stop in exactly the right spot ?
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Is the 2nd shaft gear cluster running true?
Maybe your mesh is too deep ?
Kev
Maybe your mesh is too deep ?
Kev
Kevster- Number of posts : 424
Location : Hertfordshire 4 inch; DCC road loco
Registration date : 2011-01-27
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
You should with a small amount of flywheel movement to align the gears select any gear in any position not just in one
point of the circumference.
Kev
point of the circumference.
Kev
Kevster- Number of posts : 424
Location : Hertfordshire 4 inch; DCC road loco
Registration date : 2011-01-27
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
I had a similar problem with my gears, I could only get them to engage at certain points of rotation. I cured the situation by putting a shim under the crankshaft bearing block on the gear side of the crankshaft. This effectively moves the crankshaft gears (very slightly!!) away from the second shaft gears & allows them to engage freely! It's because there may well be a slightest bit of eccentricity in the gears, which causes them to bind at certain parts in their rotation!
Try it & I think Your problem will go away!!
Regards,
Tony
Try it & I think Your problem will go away!!
Regards,
Tony
Tony King- Number of posts : 856
Age : 68
Location : scotland
Registration date : 2008-10-31
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Thanks but the problem I have is that In one location of the main drive the gear change works perfectly. However move it a few degrees and it doesn't. How do you set it up to work in all positions.
Image 1 all line up so can change gear with ease.
Untitled
by Rob Fish, on Flickr
When put in 3rd gear and the crank rotated a few degrees they are no longer aligned. The gold mark on the drive shows how far it's moved. When this is top dead centre they are all in alignment. Here I can only select third, second and first don't line up to select.
Untitled by Rob Fish, on Flickr
I've Spent all day yesterday and this morning trying different positions and still not right.
Image 1 all line up so can change gear with ease.
Untitled
by Rob Fish, on Flickr
When put in 3rd gear and the crank rotated a few degrees they are no longer aligned. The gold mark on the drive shows how far it's moved. When this is top dead centre they are all in alignment. Here I can only select third, second and first don't line up to select.
Untitled by Rob Fish, on Flickr
I've Spent all day yesterday and this morning trying different positions and still not right.
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Shim the bearing.
Otherwise there will alway be a bit of palms no the flywheel to get gear selection. Just the same on full size.
Other than not. Crystal will change gear without palming. Other says she does not want to do at all.
Otherwise there will alway be a bit of palms no the flywheel to get gear selection. Just the same on full size.
Other than not. Crystal will change gear without palming. Other says she does not want to do at all.
lynnr- Number of posts : 3242
Age : 55
Location : Highland, 4inch showman
Registration date : 2010-08-06
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Hi Kev,
I think we may possibly be talking at cross purposes here!...Are You trying to engage all three gears at the same time?... This would give the scenario You're explaining?.... Only one set of gears will be engaged/inline at any one time, when You fit the gear levers, they are designed so You can't mesh more than one gear at a time...If You do, the whole setup locks up solid!...It's not like a "modern" constant mesh gearbox where gears can be changed on the move... You HAVE to stop engine rotation to change gear!..I hope I'm not insulting Your knowledge by barking up the wrong tree here!!
Regards,
Tony
I think we may possibly be talking at cross purposes here!...Are You trying to engage all three gears at the same time?... This would give the scenario You're explaining?.... Only one set of gears will be engaged/inline at any one time, when You fit the gear levers, they are designed so You can't mesh more than one gear at a time...If You do, the whole setup locks up solid!...It's not like a "modern" constant mesh gearbox where gears can be changed on the move... You HAVE to stop engine rotation to change gear!..I hope I'm not insulting Your knowledge by barking up the wrong tree here!!
Regards,
Tony
Tony King- Number of posts : 856
Age : 68
Location : scotland
Registration date : 2008-10-31
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Hi Tony,
Think you mean Rob lol
You have described exactly the scenario I posted earlier.
I wasnt sure if Rob meant trying to engage all at once too.
Kev
Think you mean Rob lol
You have described exactly the scenario I posted earlier.
I wasnt sure if Rob meant trying to engage all at once too.
Kev
Kevster- Number of posts : 424
Location : Hertfordshire 4 inch; DCC road loco
Registration date : 2011-01-27
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Apologies Kev, yes I mean Rob!!... & Yah I realise You & I are thinking along the same lines..I wonder if we're right?
regards,
Tony
regards,
Tony
Tony King- Number of posts : 856
Age : 68
Location : scotland
Registration date : 2008-10-31
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
I thinks it's the way I've explained it. I can only change gear if I rotate the flywheel so the gear lines up to mesh. Only then can I change gear. There is only one point on the circumference of the main drive gears where they line up to change gear without rotating the flywheel.
Is this correct, if so then great but I've not had to do this on other minatures I've driven or on full size.
Is this correct, if so then great but I've not had to do this on other minatures I've driven or on full size.
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Rob,
could you post a video of whats happening, woukd be good to see whats going on.
Kev
could you post a video of whats happening, woukd be good to see whats going on.
Kev
Kevster- Number of posts : 424
Location : Hertfordshire 4 inch; DCC road loco
Registration date : 2011-01-27
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Hi Rob,
In one of the pictures above You show all three gears meshing, that is a situation which will never happen, so I don't think You have a problem!
Regards,
Tony
In one of the pictures above You show all three gears meshing, that is a situation which will never happen, so I don't think You have a problem!
Regards,
Tony
Tony King- Number of posts : 856
Age : 68
Location : scotland
Registration date : 2008-10-31
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Tony,
They are my thoughts too.
Kev
They are my thoughts too.
Kev
Kevster- Number of posts : 424
Location : Hertfordshire 4 inch; DCC road loco
Registration date : 2011-01-27
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Thanks everyone, I think I've tried every combination and I still have to rotate the flywheel to change between the gears. I'll leave it as it is and may be look at it again at some point in the future. Onwards towards completion. 😊
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Getting ready to lift the engine off its trolley, fit the wheel, and sit it on them for the first time next weekend. Quite excited but also nervous, it's a heavy lump to lift.
To other showmans builders what have you used to lift it and fit the wheels. I'm thinking of an engine hoist but wonder if the legs will be in the way of putting it down?
To other showmans builders what have you used to lift it and fit the wheels. I'm thinking of an engine hoist but wonder if the legs will be in the way of putting it down?
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
I simply use a trolley jack. When jacking up under the tender, I use a piece of strong plywood with cloth on it, to stop damage to paintwork & to spread the load.
The engine will be very unstable, so as I jack it up I put sturdy timber planks under the boiler foundation ring to stop it tipping. When high enough fit the wheels & reverse the process till it sits on its wheels. It's handy to have someone to assist on the stability issue if possible.. I didn't & managed OK!
The front end is an easy lift if the rear wheels are in place, as the engine is now very stable. Jack under the front axle pivot post.
This may not be possible for You Rob, depending on how Your engine sits on its building cradle, as positioning of the jack maybe a problem?
Hope this helps!
Regards,
Tony
The engine will be very unstable, so as I jack it up I put sturdy timber planks under the boiler foundation ring to stop it tipping. When high enough fit the wheels & reverse the process till it sits on its wheels. It's handy to have someone to assist on the stability issue if possible.. I didn't & managed OK!
The front end is an easy lift if the rear wheels are in place, as the engine is now very stable. Jack under the front axle pivot post.
This may not be possible for You Rob, depending on how Your engine sits on its building cradle, as positioning of the jack maybe a problem?
Hope this helps!
Regards,
Tony
Tony King- Number of posts : 856
Age : 68
Location : scotland
Registration date : 2008-10-31
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
I jack mine up the same as i do the full size ones. i
This way creates a more stable platform if you have the front axle on.
find a length of 2/4 or similar. I use a lump of 75mm fence post.
make sure it is the same length as the axle or thereabouts.
Place the timber under the tow bracket pushed up against the back of the tender.
now place two bottle jacks or car jacks under the timber wide enough to give you a stable tender.
This way when your pushing and rotating the wheels you wont topple the engine over.
For added security I also place axle stands under the axles and only remove the one in the way when im absolutely sure everything is stable.
belt and braces but better to be safe than have an engine on its side.
" />
Nick
This way creates a more stable platform if you have the front axle on.
find a length of 2/4 or similar. I use a lump of 75mm fence post.
make sure it is the same length as the axle or thereabouts.
Place the timber under the tow bracket pushed up against the back of the tender.
now place two bottle jacks or car jacks under the timber wide enough to give you a stable tender.
This way when your pushing and rotating the wheels you wont topple the engine over.
For added security I also place axle stands under the axles and only remove the one in the way when im absolutely sure everything is stable.
belt and braces but better to be safe than have an engine on its side.
" />
Nick
sonick45- Number of posts : 511
Location : Barton-Le-Clay (Beds)
Registration date : 2009-01-26
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Thanks both, that's very useful. My front wheels are fitted and the back is sat on a cradle. Both sugestions will be great and better than buying a engine hoist.
Many thanks
Rob
Many thanks
Rob
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Hi Rob,
I forgot to say that before You fit wheels, You should let the engine sit on blocks under the foundation ring, ie let the jack off, thus it all becomes completely stable & won't move while You struggle with wheels!! Ha!
Have fun!
Regards,
Tony
I forgot to say that before You fit wheels, You should let the engine sit on blocks under the foundation ring, ie let the jack off, thus it all becomes completely stable & won't move while You struggle with wheels!! Ha!
Have fun!
Regards,
Tony
Tony King- Number of posts : 856
Age : 68
Location : scotland
Registration date : 2008-10-31
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Thanks Tony / Nick - It is now off the trolley and progress is going well. The back of the engine is now sitting safely on 2 50t bottle jacks and supported also by railway sleepers under the foundation ring.
Last night I started fitting the winch drum. Reading the instructions the clevis pins should go through the various holes for the mechanism to be fitted, however the holes are threaded and the pins (obviously) aren't. Seems odd as I've not had this sort of problem before and I can't see anything on the forum on this, did anyone else have this problem? I should have taken a photo.
Many thanks
Rob
Last night I started fitting the winch drum. Reading the instructions the clevis pins should go through the various holes for the mechanism to be fitted, however the holes are threaded and the pins (obviously) aren't. Seems odd as I've not had this sort of problem before and I can't see anything on the forum on this, did anyone else have this problem? I should have taken a photo.
Many thanks
Rob
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Hi Rob
I had this problem and I used stainless steel bolts with locktite instead
Mark
I had this problem and I used stainless steel bolts with locktite instead
Mark
Mark the spark- Number of posts : 389
Location : Edinburgh
Registration date : 2015-04-26
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
Thanks Mark I didn't think of that. It's probably a better solution like that anyway.
Re: Rob & Tash Showmans
The winch drums were originally meant to be threaded. But batch one drums had a lot of cast hardness in them and Steve did not want to split them threading. Unfortunately some kits had the Clevis pins and subsequent batch drums with threaded holes.
Best buy some bolts or if you have the tools thread the Clevis pins as I did on Roadloco engine.
Best buy some bolts or if you have the tools thread the Clevis pins as I did on Roadloco engine.
lynnr- Number of posts : 3242
Age : 55
Location : Highland, 4inch showman
Registration date : 2010-08-06
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