Decisions, decisions...

All,
By way of introduction, I have been into steam for years, having 7 running stationary engines, (with 6 awaiting rebirth – one day, lol) and a Maxitrak loco I built years ago. My earliest memories as a child include a Lindsey Showman’s engine model that I eventually played with into oblivion…

I was smitten by the Steam Traction World line when I first saw them in a video over a year ago. Since then I’ve seen probably every YouTube video on their engines. I know I want a 4” scale engine – traction, road loco or showman’s – but I am in a quandry as to which. Until now it’s been academic but I will soon be 67, (good grief, that’s a frightening number) and my professional life is slowing. The time to do something is approaching.

Which engine – and don’t tell me one of each, please! Pros, cons, etc. It’s probably down to the agricultural, road loco and the showman’s engines. I look at one and say, “That’s it”. Then I look at the next one. I tend to the road loco and showman’s, (conjures up memories of me in the toy department looking at the Dinky and Lindsey models and my showman’s engine) but I am concerned about the roofs. Even with the cutout area they seem to impede operation a bit.

Thoughts, comments about a selection? Many thanks, Greg

Hi. I would say Showman as it’s the top notch of engines. (Ducks and runs away) being a full roofer myself.


The agi is good. Being a smaller engine, easier to transport but do not really stand out as a lot of them on the rally field. Easy to drive as unobstructed view all round. No belly tank so require extra water to be carried if roading to the village pub etc. So trailer(s) and water cart a must. 120psi working pressure. So capable but not overly powerful being a single cylinder. Simpler to build and maintain as only one of everything. If seated hanging off the tender you will find the front a bit light and pulling wheelies will be often.

The road Loco. Bigger got good legs for roading and pulling trailers. Not too many of them on the rally field. Has the belly tank and being compound is more efficient in fuel and water use. More complicated to build and maintain as two of everything in the motion department. The road Locos roof lifts off. So you can run easily without the roof. Only takes a second to put it on and off.

Showman’s. Bigger still at over 8ft long. Due to it being a showman’s will get in to more rallies that have an abundance of entries. I have never met another showman’s in Scotland. (In steam Tony). Being a full roofer has its advantages. More space to lean and chew the cud. If it rains the roof protects the motion and hot bits. You better like polishing brass as there is a lot to do. Much much harder to drive than an agi or road Loco with the big roof. Harder to see what’s in front of the engine, so you have to be extra vigilant. They do look excellent sitting outside the beer tent on an evening generating. Same complexity as the road Loco for building and maintaining. Roof design makes oiling up etc easy. The roof does not come off easily so you will be working around it. I have a lower seating position at the side of the tender behind the wheel. I have run Crystal for many many hours and miles. I have a small cut out and I can look in and see the water and pressure easily. Coaling on the rally field is stop and stoke. On the road, I set the fire deep at the start and have a coal shoot clipped to the tender and funnelled to the fire doors. I just open the doors and throw coal down the shoot in to the fire as and when. The shoot is tapered so I can direct left and right, vibration also takes care of the spread. I am on my second set of bars in 8 years. If your two up on the seat it makes life easier. Being heavy on the front, with two on the seat I have never pulled a wheelie.

I had the same quandary when I was looking but it only took a day or two on the forum to see what I wanted. Which ever engine you go for it is a big investment. So take your time and be certain it’s a showman.

Hope this meander helps and welcome to the full roofers club.

Thanks Lynn.
Your comments are a big help. I’ve been leaning, (I think, lol) to the road loco or showman’s, you’ve nudged me a bit further in the direction of a full roof. If all goes well I’m thinking I may be ready to take the plunge in the spring or early summer of ’21. I’ll definitely post something when I do.

Regards,

Greg

Have a look at my build thread in the photo section.

Hi

I had the same problem, Have you visited STW, please do it will help, I went with my first choice of a Showmans, get the first parts in January, looking forward to the build.

Thanks!

I would like to but I’m about 5K miles away and don’t expect to make a trip in that direction until this damn virus is over. I suspect you are right in saying that if I did the question would be answered immediately…

Regards,

Greg

Thanks Lynn, will look at them.

Hi Greg,

in addition to Lynn's answer: I was at exactly the same point as you are. I have to confess Agri was not my thing - for whatever reason, I cannot say why.

So it was down to either Road Loco or Showmans. Originally I wanted to build a Showmans, being fascinated by all the bling bling, the lights etc. maybe also as the first traction engine I saw was Iron Maiden (the movie!!!) so I full roof it was for me.

To make up my mind I went to STW and had a long chat with Dean. When we came to the question of RL or SM, he asked me what I plan to do: "Drive around the rally field or park in front of the beer tent and have a movable table for the beer with me?". Then he offered me to sit down on his Showmans (single seated) and have look. With the roof closed  you could not see where you were going. Side remark before I get hate mail from full roofers (Hello Lynn ) I could not see the road in front of me, sitting on a double seat it might (and surely is) different. The show stopper for me, though, was that the moving parts are hidden under the roof entirely. I like to watch the crankshaft rotating, all the motion moving etc. That is what I want to see while moving down the road.

So for standing at a rally it's roof on, but as soon as I start do fire up, it's roof off. the roof is only attached by 4 pins that slide into receptacles on the frame. Easier to oil up and to fire without the roof.

Again this is MY personal feeling, in the end it's up to you: He who pays the piper calls the tune.

Joke aside, have a look at all the builds in the forum, namely Lynn's Crystal, she also has several videos of her Showmans and others. Plenty of reading and watching before making your decision.

Cheers

Stay safe

Elwood

Hi Greg

I would echo what Dean said to Elwood, it mainly depends on what you intend to do with the engine, it also depends on your confidence with the build.

If feel like you would be a beginner, and want to just trundle around the rally field, then an agri would be the best option as it is simple and easy to both drive and maintain. It is also quite nippy for an agricultural engine when in top gear.

If you feel a bit more confident than a beginner then the DCC would be a better call as they are far superior to the singles in terms of power and speed. But then as Elwood says it depends on the amount of driving around you want to do. The showmans is a good engine but it isn't as easy to drive on the road as other engines would due to the restriction of the roof. Were as the road loco is much easier to drive with the roof being removable, however it is becoming more common all the time as it is alongside our agricultural as one of our most popular engines (and the agri's popularity is partially down to how long we have been manufacturing it), and so the Road loco doesn't stand out quite as much as the showmans does when sat on the rally field.

I understand that it is difficult to come to the factory at the moment due to the virus, but once things start to ease off please do come to the factory, you can have a chat with Dean, have a cup of tea or coffee, and of course we have the new showroom for people to look around which we are eager to show off.

Many thanks

Will@STW

Hi Greg
I am also a full roofer and like Lynn I believe th Showman's are the machine with the most presence on a rally field.
If you do go with the showman’s option the roof and dynamos can be left off so you will essentially have a long boiler road loco with the option to turn it back into a Showman’s.
If you go for the Road loco it is possible to convert that to a showman’s but having the shorter boiler the exciter dynamo won’t fit.
The road loco is common in the us now with Atlas and Rachel “LOL” bas yet I don’t know of a Showman’s over there but that could be that the builder is shy.
If this has worked on you then welcome to the full roof gang.
If not then it’s just welcome to the gang.
Which ever way you go you will have something pretty special.
Simon C

Hi Greg
I also have a showmans and now a roller as well and one word about the showmans it takes a LOT of cleaning and polishing
A friend of mine has always wanted a showmans and I dropped it of at his house and got him to clean it and now he is not so sure . He now prefers the roller
Mark

Thank you all for the comments.

They are a big help and tend to confirm what I’ve been thinking. I like the showman’s engine, perhaps in part due to its association with my childhood but the full roof vs view does worry me. The DCC road loco increasingly appears the way to go. No decision yet but hopefully in 2021. (I’m not getting any younger, )

Mark’s comment concerning cleaning and polishing was not lost on me either,

Hi Greg
I can certainly recommend the roller its really nice and quite rare

You can see both my engines on the STW facebook page