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Winterize or sort of

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Winterize or sort of Empty Winterize or sort of

Post  elwood-59 Sat 12 Nov 2022, 1:40 pm

Hi All,

tried to make good use of sunny Saturday and to steam up Pied Piper for the final steam for 2022.
Had some issues with raising fire, did get it up to about 120 psi, started my little round trip and noticed that, other than ususal, the steam did not raise although I had put coal onto the fire before starting off. Long story short, called it a day, as I still had about 50 psi, which was my minimum aim for to remove the covers to let them dry out by letting the water evaporate.

Also I wanted to check with LP cavity as I had a feeling that the starter valve still misbehaves and leaks, as after a few minutes of standstill the regulator lever gets solid, moving the reverser while slowly pusing the flywheel will get the crankshaft turning quite rapidly until it settled down. So pessure build up in LP cavity due to leaking starter valve (or cross over plate at bottom of cylinder - hopefully not Shocked ).

Removed LP cover, some pressure behind. checked the starter valve hole (rear top corner) no steam, pushing starter valve will rush steam into LP cavity but stops with lever released. OK. checked steam from cross over opening at bottom rear corner. A whiff of steam, that died down in a few seconds - residual water/condensed steam blown off, then end of.

Removed HP cover and was greeted by a steam leak from regulator. So I assume that over time the pressure in HP chamber builds up, thus locks - what? cylinder? valve puck? to a point where you cannot move the reverser AT ALL? unless you turn the flywheel to get over that point, then the trapped pressure spins the crankshaft until the pressure is released. Short stops do not allow this „steam lock“ to happen, as the leak is only small.

Problem found?!?! Or do you have a different i.e. better explanation? Or am I hunting ghosts again Embarassed

Question to you, Lynn. When I look into the coss over opening in the block, can I see the top side of that cover plate, bolted into the cylinder from the boiler side? Just wondering, as I seem to be able to see that stainless steel plate or so I think.

Cheers

Elwood
elwood-59
elwood-59

Number of posts : 300
Location : Germany-NRW
Registration date : 2014-12-17

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Post  Lynn@STW Sun 13 Nov 2022, 5:44 pm

HI Elwood

Yes if your regulator is leaky it will cause a balanced pressure build up and as you say locks the crank.

Again spot on you will see the plate in the bottom of the cross over passage if you look from the LP side bottom right corner. Or when you have the HP valve puck off from the centre valve cavity.

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Steam Traction World Ltd

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Number of posts : 165
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Registration date : 2017-07-19

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Post  elwood-59 Sun 13 Nov 2022, 5:53 pm

Hi Lynn,

thanks for the clarification.

I am a bit surprised to find the regulator leaking (again) as I had spend quite some time to get a near perfect surface on both. In the end I could lift the base with the regulator puck easily with just a drop of water in between as "glue". I was tempted to open the regulator yesterday but I still had about 50 psi, so that would not have been my best idea lol! Later and today I could not sneak out into the garage to check, but will do so as soon as time allows.

Thanks

Elwood
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elwood-59

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Post  elwood-59 Tue 15 Nov 2022, 11:13 am

Hi Lynn,

took off the regulator puck and found small scratches on it as already expected Crying or Very sad

After going through the threads on regulator (yes, most of them will refer to the old 2 stage version) I am wondering about two things:

where do the particles that make those marks come from i.e. what is ist?
How to settle that for the future? don‘t want to clean and polish after every other steaming.

BTW the leakage is about as much as in one of your (short) videos when you tested Crystals regulator. How did you in the end managed to permanently stop the leaking puck? But I assume that Crystal is with the original version of cylinder block without the stainless steel regulator base so a bit different.

Cheers

Elwood
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elwood-59

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Post  Lynn@STW Tue 15 Nov 2022, 12:47 pm

Hi Elwood

On Crystal I had steamed for a couple seasons before I got the plate and puck mod.

You may find the scoring has been caused by debris carried out of your boiler or calcium crystals in your water. Or a bit of rust out of your tender or belly tank made its way through the system to the regulator. Even a fine iron suspension would be enough to score a polished brass puck.

Crystals regulator behaved to the day I let her go. There was some scoring over the period but not joined up enough to cause a problem. I never repolished either items.

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Registration date : 2017-07-19

http://www.steamtractionworld.co.uk

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Post  elwood-59 Tue 15 Nov 2022, 3:36 pm

Hi Lynn,

quick update/background info:
polished the puck with 400/800/2000/3000 grit emery paper, the last one wet and after cleaning installed it.
Will steam again asap to finalize winter hibernation.

Your remark got me thinking, though: I do indeed have issues with rust particles in tender. Not much luck with Isofix at all. applied 3 layers as suggested but still rust spots do appear.

I plan to replace the tender plates  by stainless steel, I only need to figure out how to manufacture the round corners at the rear. Else I think about having the tender coated internally with polyurethan as suggested by others.

Anyways,  will steam Pied Piper as soon as weather allows and report back.

Thanks

Cheers

Elwood
elwood-59
elwood-59

Number of posts : 300
Location : Germany-NRW
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Post  LiveSteam Wed 16 Nov 2022, 8:49 pm

elwood-59 wrote: I do indeed have issues with rust particles in tender. Not much luck with Isofix at all. applied 3 layers as suggested but still rust spots do appear.


I wouldnt get too hung up about it unless you're OCD about that kind of thing, my elderly Agri of 18yrs had its tender Isoflexed and when I first got it I noticed some of the sealant was peeling away and I could see rusty metal of the tender Shocked
So it was put on my to do list....................... 8yrs on and its still on my to do list Embarassed , last year I looked in the tender again and yeah more of the Isoflex was peeling off and yes there was some rust scale forming on the surface but in truth I cant see the tender really running into issues for at least another 20yrs, thats if I dont do anything at all and chances are the boiler will need work by then as it will be nearly 40yrs old so will likely need a major strip down anyway.
If rusty carry over etc from the tender is really likely to cause scoring on the puck then my puck should be ground wafer thin by now with the amount of rust kicking about in the tender, that and sand/gravel which seems to get picked up on the rear wheel and then manages to enter through the tender water flap filler. Laughing


LiveSteam

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Post  elwood-59 Thu 17 Nov 2022, 5:22 pm

Hi,

Made good use of yesterdays sunny weather and was able to raise Pied Piper to full working pressure, did a quck  run around the block and upon return to base opened all covers and let the steam/water evaporate to put it to bed. Basically I followed Lynn's suggestion somewhere in the forum how to do  Very Happy
After working on the regulator puck engine did behave, no blocked reverser, no run away. Upon opening the HP valve I could still see a small whiff of steam from the regulator connection and when removing the puck again today found new scoring, small still but as I was driving for only about 15 min, already there. Sad

@ LiveSteam: Interesting, but mine seems to behave different. Looking at the videos of Chrix on his Agri build the setup seems similar, as far as I remember the pressure is same (180 psi) so...

Thanks anyways

Cheers

Elwood
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