Battery maintenance

Looking for advice on maintaining the batteries for the Lyka. 2 off Hankook V65

Type of charger required and recommendations
Can both batteries be connected and chargered as one.

Any other ideas

Thanks
Stuart

Hi Stuart.
Give this a look.
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/draper-612v-6a-intelligent-battery-charger/
Simon C

Hi

I use Ctek intelligent chargers on all my batteries. Car, trailer, winch, garage winch, caravan. They stay connected and on 24/7 and condition the batteries.

My sisters car has one and a couple friends also now use them.

100% recommend

Link below gives a look at one of the range

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/CTEK-MXS-5-0-Reconditions-Motorcycle/dp/B00FC42HAA/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1CNRE16JCYMUV&dchild=1&keywords=ctech+battery&qid=1588018136&sprefix=ctech+b%2Caps%2C200&sr=8-1

Yes the batteries can be left in parallel as long as same capacity and charge requirement.

Yep another Ctek owner here, connect and forget.

Had my ones for what must be 10yrs now, the only issue I have found is the smaller ones dont recover over discharged batteries very well. But for general maintenance they are the best and dont over charge the batteries.

Parallel charging is not a problem but remember it will take twice as long.

As a side note I'm assuming you are using standard vehicle batteries on the Lyka, now I could be wrong, but I dont think the Lyka has any form of on-board charging ? therefore you really using them in a cyclic operation, this is not an ideal use for standard starter batteries and you will find them failing prematurely. I would suggest moving to cyclic or deep cyclic type batteries, they are more expensive but they are constructed differently and designed to be cycled up and down far more than your standard car starter battery.

If the lyka does have some kind of on-board charging when its running then ignore the above.

thanks for the replies

Using batteries as suggested by STW
What amperage charger would people suggest for 2 batteries on a Lykamobile

As an aside, found two lumps on the battery
one tested positive, hope it's not terminal

Regards
Stuart

binghas wrote:thanks for the replies

Using batteries as suggested by STW
What amperage charger would people suggest for 2 batteries on a Lykamobile

You say they are Hankook V65 but with a bit of googling I cant find these, I can find 065 version ?

We need to know their rating really and what kind of discharge we are looking at and then the recharge time scale you want before being able to suggest a charger, the smallest one will be fine for maintenance and keeping them topped up but it will make for extended recharge times if they are heavily cycled and discharged depending on their rated capacity.

binghas wrote:

As an aside, found two lumps on the battery
one tested positive, hope it's not terminal

Regards
Stuart

This how I've solved the battery charging on the lika, I added an alternator on the  differential opposed side of the drive chain. A sprocket was added to drive the alternator. The sprocket size was the same diameter as the diff. and the sprocket on the alternator was smallest that was available. The alternator field winding was rewound for low RPM. The alternator only works when the car is moving. I will post how it mounted on the car.

Thats a good idea, although it would be nice to be able to charge stationary, although I dont know if the Lyka engine can run in neutral

Livesteam, There is not a 'Neutral' on the Lykamobile!! No gearbox - direct chain drive from the engine. It does not need a gearbox!
Greg

Goliewogs wrote:Livesteam, There is not a 'Neutral' on the Lykamobile!! No gearbox - direct chain drive from the engine. It does not need a gearbox!
Greg

I thought as much, just wasnt sure, on a traction engine you can of course run the engine in neutral, there are also 2 or 3 gear options, neutral is used for driving a tool or generator or just to put water in the engine, I wasnt sure if the Lyka was able to do that

correct about charging battery, it charges while driving.you have spin the alternator fast enough for it to charge. driving is the best way to accomplish  this, if you were to run the engine just to charge the battery you would have to spin it too fast with no load on it I don't think the engine would like it.. The reason I design a in/out box, it does not change ratio from input to output is to run the engine so you don't have to jack up one wheel. Now I'm able to clear water from the cylinders and warm the engine and run the pumps to fill the boiler. The complete unit is installed between the two rails.

photo1     most parts are off the shelf but  machining is required
photo 2     unit in the drive position
photo3      unit in the neutral position
photo 4      unit in the car

jjtjr wrote:correct about charging battery, it charges while driving.you have spin the alternator fast enough for it to charge. driving is the best way to accomplish  this, if you were to run the engine just to charge the battery you would have to spin it too fast with no load on it I don't think the engine would like it.

I suppose it could be done old school with a dynamo as they dont need the rpm alternators and would remove the need for a rewound low speed alternator, although it would mean the addition of a regulator.

May I ask for advice from someone who understands these things?

Having placed the 2 Hankook XV65 batteries in the Lyka and linked them up with the cables supplied, leaving the final connections to the Lyka electrics box until later, just wondering the best way to trickle charge them with a single CTEK charger.

Can you charge both batteries with one CTEK charger simultaneously, or do you have to disconnect the cables joining the batteries and charge/recharge the two batteries separately?

Or with the batteries connected positive to positive and negative to negative with the STW supplied cables, can one attach the CTEK to the pos and neg terminals respectively and let it charge up, or will the CTEK get confused and deliver a total of 12v to the batteries rather than the required total 2x12=24V?

Wish I'd paid more attention in physics lessons, duh.

Thanks!

Nick

If the batteries are in Parallel the 12V charger will work fine. IE + to + and - to -

If in series ie - bat A to + bat B with output over + Bat A and - Bat B then it is 24v and require a 24v charger.

[quote="lynnr"]If the batteries are in Parallel the 12V charger will work fine. IE + to + and  - to -

If in series ie - bat A to + bat B with output over + Bat A and - Bat B then it is 24v and require a 24v charger.



Thanks Lynn. That (parallel) method was what I did (luckily) but the little green window in one battery went to 'clear' after 24hrs with the CTEK, indicating it's died, hence the query. I'll see about returning it under guarantee. Thanks again -- much appreciated!

Incidentally, the papers you send out to enable the Lyka to be UK registered (VMAX etc) -- do you need the VIN or anything else before you can issue that? Email me direct if you like - Nicholas.banfield100@gmail.com. Hope to have completed the build by late Spring and would be good to get paperwork done in advance if possible. Thx again!

Hi!
Luckily you did connect the batteries in Parallel - there is NO other option!! The batteries MUST be connected in parallel and NOT serially!! Serial connection will give 24 volts which would destroy the inverter and most of the other electronics. I saw some other idea on this thread that suggests you use one battery and then swap to the other and charge just one (unless I have misunderstood this comment!) - this is NOT a good idea!! The idea of parallel connection is to give a bigger reserve of power (amp/hours) and thus you should be able to use the car for about an hour or so instead of 15 minutes!!
Your comment that the little window on one battery has gone clear doesn't sound too good! I think it is a dud - hopefully you can change it. I use two marine deep cycle batteries as using just ordinary car starter batteries is not a good idea as they are not designed for unending charging/discharging/charging as we require in the Lyka. They are expensive but in the long run will save you money. They are made by Optima and if you are interested I can give you the reference number so they fit exactly in the battery box!
Hope this helps
Greg

Goliewogs wrote:Hi!
Luckily you did connect the batteries in Parallel - there is NO other option!! The batteries MUST be connected in parallel and NOT serially!! Serial connection will give 24 volts which would destroy the inverter and most of the other electronics. I saw some other idea on this thread that suggests you use one battery and then swap to the other and charge just one (unless I have misunderstood this comment!) - this is NOT a good idea!! The idea of parallel connection is to give a bigger reserve of power (amp/hours) and thus you should be able to use the car for about an hour or so instead of 15 minutes!!
Your comment that the little window on one battery has gone clear doesn't sound too good! I think it is a dud - hopefully you can change it. I use two marine deep cycle batteries as using just ordinary car starter batteries is not a good idea as they are not designed for unending charging/discharging/charging as we require in the Lyka. They are expensive but in the long run will save you money. They are made by Optima and if you are interested I can give you the reference number so they fit exactly in the battery box!
Hope this helps
Greg

Thanks Greg- very useful confirmation. And yes please - would appreciate the Optima battery ref number if you have it handy.
So the two Hankooks would only supply enough power for about an hour of running the Lyka? That's a surprise.
How did STW manage Land's End to John O'Groats I wonder -- endless battery changes?? Or perhaps there was an alternator lurking somewhere under the bonnet......

Something you Lyka folks my find useful is moving to LifePO4 12v

I'll warn you now though they arnt cheap, BUT they will outlast any lead acid battery and have the ability to out deliver any 12v battery of the same ah capacity as they can be discharged at their true 1hr rating without damaging them.

Might be worth investigating ?

Nick100!
The Life batteries (LifePO4 12v), I don't think are even worth considering as they are an outrageous price (for me anyway... perhaps not for you!) and also I don't think will fit in the battery box!!
The batteries that I am using are two OPTIMA Marine deep cycle which are a Gel spiral matting wound type (non spill). These can be completely discharged and then re-charged over and over without any worries. I use an automatic intelligent type battery charger. (It charges the two of them together at about 7 amps). The reference is : OPTIMA BTDSLIM4.2 (Blue) Marine Battery. The 'Blue' bit is important as Optima make batteries in blue, red and yellow! If you look on the Inet it will tell you all about them!

Now, I live in France so the reference may be slightly different where you live, and I paid 296,62 Euros EACH which was about (then) 296,62 pounds stirling! Might sound expensive but worth it I think. Also, they do fit side by side in the battery box (Nice comfy, close fit so they do not rattle around), but you will have to play around with the wiring and the orientation of the batteries to wire them up in Parallel, but it is not necessary to cut any of the supplied wiring!!

As yet, I have not steamed my Lyka (that is just around the corner as it is all complete)! So my comparison above of 15 mins for one battery and an hour for two was purely a comparative example to say 1 battery will not last long, two will last longer - I really do not know! BUT, I cannot see the two of them together with the required power draw of the inverter lasting very much longer! So for the Land's End trip that STW undertook, they MUST have changed batteries a few times every day (presumably their support van had plenty of charged batteries on board! But, if you speak to Dean or Will, they will be able to give you the definitive answer - in which I will be interested to know as well!!
Best regards
Greg

Goliewogs wrote:Nick100!
The Life batteries (LifePO4 12v), I don't think are even worth considering as they are an outrageous price (for me anyway... perhaps not for you!) and also I don't think will fit in the battery box!!

I obviously cant comment on their fit however while they are very expensive, they knock any lead acid style battery (including Optima's) right out of the water when it comes to performance.

Goliewogs wrote:
The batteries that I am using are two OPTIMA Marine deep cycle which are a Gel spiral matting wound type (non spill). These can be completely discharged and then re-charged over and over without any worries. I use an automatic intelligent type battery charger. (It charges the two of them together at about 7 amps). The reference is : OPTIMA BTDSLIM4.2 (Blue) Marine Battery. The 'Blue' bit is important as Optima make batteries in blue, red and yellow! If you look on the Inet it will tell you all about them!

Optima's are one of the best lead acid based batteries going, but they are still just lead based and have to stick to the same rules, even optima say avoid less than 12.4v   https://www.optimabatteries.com/experience/blog/basic-information-on-battery-voltage
You dont say what you mean by completely discharge them and what voltage you are using to base being completely discharged ?
Optima's do tend to have a higher cycle life compared to flooded cells but you'll still only be looking at 1000 cycles if you are lucky.
When you look at LifePO4 life cycles of 5000+ and the fact they can be driven much harder and still be in spec it actually makes the higher initial cost worth it in the long run.

Goliewogs wrote:So my comparison above of 15 mins for one battery and an hour for two was purely a comparative example to say 1 battery will not last long, two will last longer - I really do not know! BUT, I cannot see the two of them together with the required power draw of the inverter lasting very much longer!

What you are seeing is the big problem with Lead Acid battery of any type, its known as Peukert's law, basically as the rate of discharge increases, the battery's available capacity decreases.
Many lead acid cyclic batteries discharge rates are measured at their C20 rate, even Optima give their ah rating @ C20 rate.
The C rating is the amount of amps you can draw over a given number of hours that gives the battery its rated capacity.
An example is say a 100ah battery @ C20, so for the battery to deliver 100ah we divide 100 by 20 which = 5, therefore the battery can supply 5amps for 20hrs and then would be flat and would have delivered its 100ah rating.
If you start discharging the battery at more than 5amps it wont deliver 100ah and the higher the rate the less actual capacity it will give you as determined by Peukert's law. So if you tried to say doubled the discharge to say 10amps the battery would be flat in just 5hrs and only delivered 50ah, half of what its rated and flat 3 times quicker.

Thus as you have found one battery gave 15mins run time yet two gave an hour, by sharing the load over two batteries you are improving the batteries deliverable power due to Peukert's Law.

Now LifePO4 or most lithium based batteries dont suffer from Peukert's law and can deliver their rated capacity at the 1hr rate or even less. So you can discharge your 100ah battery at 100amps for 1 hour and it will give you 100ah, or you can take 50amps for two hours and so on. Some can be even discharged at even higher rates and still give their true ah rating.

So while LifePO4 batteries are dam expensive they are dam good and if you look at their whole life pound for pound (or euro for euro) actually better value, if you can afford them in the first place.

Yeah I know............... I'm a battery nerd

Morning,

From memory (it was over 10 years ago), on the LE to JoG trip a pair of batteries lasted at very least a full day and we charged them overnight. I'm even pretty sure the pair lasted close on two days or a weekend and we just charged one each evening. Each day we covered anything from 50 - 100 miles with the series one running over around 10 - 12 hours.

We did try 'alternator' options in the Research and Development stage prior to the run but felt it took more effort out than it out in and it was deemed not worthwhile.

Dean

There we go! I knew Dean would know the definitive answer! However, I am very surprised - phenominal!!! But here is the proof!
Regards
Greg