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Adjusting the valves or trying to

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Adjusting the valves or trying to Empty Adjusting the valves or trying to

Post  elwood-59 Tue 29 Jan 2019, 4:00 pm

Hi,

Finally managed to get all eccentric rods installed, the expansion levers etc. so to be able to turn over the engine and to prepare for running it on air (still a bit to fit until then but...)
Crankshaft turns over nicely until it locked up suddenly. Searching I found the HP valve rod to hit the front end of valve chamber in cylinder block. Further checks showed the adjuster nut on HP valve spindle resp. valve rod not being fully in. Used the rear nut on the slide valve side to turn over the valve rod, but could manage only until about a gap if 3,5 mm still there. Not enough for free movement.Mad

As some days ago I had furgotten to mount the locknut unto the valve rod and being forced to take half of the motion apart again, I am not too keen to go back again with the motion now completly fitted.

Can I remove the whole valve spindle with lift links etc still installed on HP side to slide out the valve spindle and the valve rod to see where the problem is at. When I had it all apart I did not check for the depth of thread into the valve spindle not expecting such a tight fit in the first place Embarassed    

Any suggestion?

Elwood
elwood-59
elwood-59

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Adjusting the valves or trying to Empty Re: Adjusting the valves or trying to

Post  lynnr Tue 29 Jan 2019, 5:19 pm

Hi

The quickest way I can think of is pull the pin out of the die block and one end of the expansion link to reach rods. This should allow the expansion link to swivel out the way and allow the valve spindle and yoke to be pulled all together. (As long as the spindle retaining nut will pass through the bearings)

I set my valve puck on the spindle (remember the puck needs to move ever so slightly) and filed the end of the spindle to a closeness to the nuts. I also on the HP side used a dremel and created a small hollow on the valve chest side as extra. Also remember this is when cold as when hot the block will be moved forward a bit due to expansion of the boiler.

lynnr
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Adjusting the valves or trying to Empty Re: Adjusting the valves or trying to

Post  Steve Traill Tue 29 Jan 2019, 11:05 pm

I had the same problem on my block, where it hits there is plenty of meat on the casting so just used a 12mm drill to create a hollow for the end of the spindle to go into. It's not very deep 3 - 4mm. That was on the old blind bore blocks though, when I fitted one of the new 'see through' blocks I didn't have a problem.
Steve Traill
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Adjusting the valves or trying to Empty Re: Adjusting the valves or trying to

Post  elwood-59 Wed 30 Jan 2019, 9:40 am

Hi,

Just a quick feedback:
Did as you suggested, Lynn, took the pins out at the two links, Forward and Reverse and put them aside, removed the pin out of the yoke and remove valve rod in toto. I noticed that the thread in the valve spindle is not deep enough to take up all of the valve rod thread. Was able to cure that by CAREFULLY retapping the thread, now valve spindle goes in al the way - good.

Reassembled everything and - still same issue - the rod still hits the front of the valve chest. I do not really fancy drilling a hole into the cylinder block with a drill or a dremel, only if I needed to...

Called it a day!

What do I miss.... affraid

Cheers

Elwood
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Adjusting the valves or trying to Empty Re: Adjusting the valves or trying to

Post  lynnr Wed 30 Jan 2019, 11:16 am

Hi Elwood

Also remember the "cut back" slots are set to the valve movement and the reversing lever does not go all the way to the front or back of the quadrant. On Crystal if I take the reversing lever past the last notch on the quadrant the handle will be pulled out of my hand as the rear of the valve puck will hit the side of the valve chest.
lynnr
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Adjusting the valves or trying to Empty Re: Adjusting the valves or trying to

Post  elwood-59 Wed 30 Jan 2019, 11:31 am

Hi Lynn,

Have to confess I have not mounted the reverser lever (yet) as I need to have the tender painted and then mounted to have something to mount the reversing lever to.

HMMMMM could be my mistake there - I hope -  as of now the die blocks are all the way to the end of the slots of the expansion links, as gravity would make. Hope this where I goofed up Embarassed

Will try to rig up a reach rod from some piece of flat steel so I can play until tender and reverser lever are fitted. You have, by any chance the possibility to measure the reach rod movement fully forward to fully back, as much as your reverser lever would allow? I can find center position with die blocks in the middle. So that measurement would give me a indication of how much travel I‘d need on the link.  

Thanks for looking into it.

Cheers

Elwood
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Adjusting the valves or trying to Empty Re: Adjusting the valves or trying to

Post  lynnr Wed 30 Jan 2019, 1:05 pm

Brrrrrrr


It is cold out there.!!!

Crystals revering lever travel is 7cm from front of notch to back of notch at the other end.
lynnr
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Post  elwood-59 Wed 30 Jan 2019, 1:33 pm

Thanks Lynn,

Did not think about the weather up there, sorry.

Will check out later & come back on it

Thanks again

Cheers

Elwood
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Post  Simon C Wed 30 Jan 2019, 6:34 pm

https://traction.forumotion.com/t2697-valve-gear-problems

Hi Elwood
you may find some answers at the above link
Simon C
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Adjusting the valves or trying to Empty Re: Adjusting the valves or trying to

Post  elwood-59 Wed 30 Jan 2019, 7:00 pm

Hi Simon,

Have to confess I did not use search function, sorry.

Yes does answer some questions, although reading it (again) I was under the impression it was an issues for the “old” block and not for the “see through” block as mine.

Thanks for the link. will try tomorrow.

Cheers

Elwood
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Post  Simon C Wed 30 Jan 2019, 8:33 pm

My block is the same design as yours Elwood and as Mark is at the same part of his build as me I think he also has the “see through block”
I would say at this point that if you don't have your reversing lever fitted then its not worth the risk of airing up for a run.
I had around 2 bar in the boiler once when the engine turned over and it garbed the spanner I was using, it was determined not to let go until I doped the pressure to zero.
I consider myself lucky it didn't get my fingers or bend anything, I gave myself a real good telling off and haven't taken risks with it since.
these engines may be small and sweet but if it goes bad it can go real bad, please take care.
Simon
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Post  elwood-59 Wed 30 Jan 2019, 11:33 pm

Hi Simon,

so we are sitting in the same boat, seemingly.

My intention was and still is to finalize the motion and being able to turn over the crankshaft. Will have a look at the valve rod again, had it out this morning, hoping the extra 3,5 mm gained with recutting the threads might be enough, but seemingly not so.
As for your advice not to run it on air as it is right now, thanks, point taken and noted. Always good to have a second thought of somebody else, who already has had a (bad) experience.

Thanks for the info and suggestions

Cheers

Elwood
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Adjusting the valves or trying to Empty Re: Adjusting the valves or trying to

Post  elwood-59 Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:37 pm

Hi Simon,

As a side thought: with die blocks at about center position (i.e. neutral on reverser lever) where did you find your sliding valves to be at? Center position or off-center? Trying to find out how much and, if possible, not too much to shorten the valve rod. Or am I looking at it from the wrong side?

Just wondering, as SWMBO set up different plans for me for today & tomorrow, so cannot sneak out to work on Pied Piper.  Rolling Eyes

Cheers

Elwood
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Adjusting the valves or trying to Empty Re: Adjusting the valves or trying to

Post  Simon C Thu 31 Jan 2019, 5:06 pm

its flipping cold in the middle of the country as well as in Lynn land Elwood but hope this helps John Denis didn't like his bed clothes getting taken off.
as the valve covers are off at the moment I have taken these for you.
OK with the reversing lever in the neutral position:-
Adjusting the valves or trying to <a href=Adjusting the valves or trying to XNc3yPOl" />
now with the leaver in the full forward position and the crank rotated to put the valve in the fully forward position:-
Adjusting the valves or trying to <a href=Adjusting the valves or trying to Bxc8ItFl" />
and again with the leaver in the full reverse position and the crank rotated to put the valve in the fully back position:-
Adjusting the valves or trying to KSGDIYTl
you may notice that the port is less open in reverse, this is a compromise based on it fully opens when going forwards the direction you mainly travel so optimum setting and as you don't go around in reverse then its good-enough. Thanks to Lynn for that info.
I am sorry to the purists that I haven't polished the brass bits for this impromptu photo call.
J.D. is now back fast asleep with his bed clothes tucked in an his heater on.
Simon C
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Adjusting the valves or trying to Empty Re: Adjusting the valves or trying to

Post  elwood-59 Thu 31 Jan 2019, 5:43 pm

Hi Simon,

thanks for braving the low temperatures, seems like we are suffering from the same weather, but, then again, it‘s winter time, although we had about +10 deg two weeks ago...
And sorry to wake up John Dennis, did not expect to receive pictures that quickly (although I cannot see the first and third one, have to have a closer look on my computer (right now only looking on my iPad))
Back to original question:
When I check my valve (LP seems ok as far as hitting anything goes Shocked ) the valve in (or around) neutral  has a large opening at the rear port so I assume the rod is off quite a bit - about 5 mm to the front minimum.
Gives me a rough idea.

Thanks for the pictures

Cheers

Elwood
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Adjusting the valves or trying to Empty Re: Adjusting the valves or trying to

Post  Simon C Thu 31 Jan 2019, 6:04 pm

If you need me to repeat the process on the L.P. valve chest I can as that side cover is also off for winter.
As my boiler inspection is due any time now I can not say how long it will remain that way.
Simon
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Post  elwood-59 Thu 31 Jan 2019, 6:19 pm

Hi Simon,

Yes, please, if you could spare a minute and are with J.D. anyways, but no need to hurry. Plan to rework the valve rod mybe on the weekend, (if I am allowed Shocked ). I was just wondering about the position of the valve and thought you might know. Receiving pictures showing it is more that I expected.

Thanks again

Cheers

Elwood
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Adjusting the valves or trying to Empty Re: Adjusting the valves or trying to

Post  Simon C Thu 31 Jan 2019, 6:42 pm

LP forward.
Adjusting the valves or trying to <a href=Adjusting the valves or trying to Fy8z6oul" />
LP neutral
Adjusting the valves or trying to <a href=Adjusting the valves or trying to P5UOjQBl" />
LP reverse
Adjusting the valves or trying to <a href=Adjusting the valves or trying to BH37o0Ol" />
And back to bed
Adjusting the valves or trying to <a href=Adjusting the valves or trying to FAyNdzUl" />

Simon
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Post  elwood-59 Thu 31 Jan 2019, 7:04 pm

Thanks!

Elwood
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Adjusting the valves or trying to Empty Re: Adjusting the valves or trying to

Post  Capricorn1 Sun 03 Feb 2019, 3:55 pm

During my build I found both valve spindles were too long and bottomed out onto the side of the steam chest.
The solution was just to run a die down to extend the M8 thread which screws into the valve spindle guide and shorten the rod.
You can't really check the valve gear until its all assembled - reversing lever in position.
Once it's all together you can check the valve events - position of the valves to the steam ports while the engine is cold, this will allow you to run on air.
When it comes to the first steaming and the engine is hot and up to around 100psi, take the valve chest covers off and turn the engine over by hand checking each valve opening in both forward gear and reverse, you can adjust the valve spindles in relation to the valve guides if required.
You'll also be able see if the simpling valve (starting valve if you prefer) is leaking.
So with the above in mind fit the valve chest covers and gaskets dry, or with a little cylinder oil rubbed on them.

Capricorn1

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