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Tender Paint

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Tender Paint Empty Tender Paint

Post  elwood-59 Sat 23 Feb 2019, 10:01 am

Hi,

After long try and error, more error, that is, I finally decided to have my tender spray painted by professionals instead of brush painted. During our discussion on how to do it the best way the paintshop manager suggested to use (what he called) body sealant between the joints, similar to what currently is done by car manufacturers when they join two sheets together to stop water entering the gap between the two parts and causing rust. I can see the argument, but find it hard to follow, as the tender already has been assembled (minus tow straps) and while assembling, the paint will hinder correct positioning and might be rubbed off anyways.

At this moment I plan to have them do the complete tender outside and footplate plus the tow strap and as much as I can separately, up to final coat and assemble tow strap etc in the end after final coat. The inside of the tender tank will then be coated with Isoflex, thus sealing the inside of tank.

Question to the professionals who have several seasons of steaming done already: What is your experience with that, during your build did you do a special preparation for the joints and the beading or did you just put primer and paint on after assemly? Any issues with rust coming out of a joint, calling for touchup or repair?

Sorry if some of the questions sound funny, but after talking to the paint shop guys (who have a excellent reputation - not the 20£ full car paint jop variety) I am kinda lost. Embarassed  Question

Cheers

Elwood
elwood-59
elwood-59

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Tender Paint Empty Re: Tender Paint

Post  sonick45 Sat 23 Feb 2019, 10:11 am

All my parts we red oxide or zinc high build primed.
some was rubbed of when parts were fitted as the tolerances were so small.
The one benefit of brush painting is the thickness of the paint applied which seals off many of the areas water may creep in.


I have had no issue with rust on any parts other than on spot under the belly tank that got scratched with a stone chip and went unnoticed for a season.

sonick45

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Post  lynnr Sat 23 Feb 2019, 11:22 am

Hi

On Crystal I sealed the inside with Isoflex with tape over the corners in case it leaked and put wax in the threaded holes. Then spray painted the tender and after 8 years "wet" no problems. (Scottish rally fields grade wet)

Also consider Rob Cooper Fineart. He has done many miniature traction engine paintings new build and rebuild.
lynnr
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Post  elwood-59 Sat 23 Feb 2019, 4:21 pm

Thabks for your answers.

Again, I think there is no real right or wrong.
Brush painting: I‘ve done the belly tank horn plates and other things with some success. But I did not get the tender right at all, too much paint, not enough, runs, bad coverage, I‘ve been there. So in the end after much thought and pondering I realised that my best ability of brush painting are not good enough for my standards, so I started to search for outside source and help.
A local car body shop and painting gave me a good offer, I talked to the superviser - who accidentally is into models himself, but the water bound remote controlled version, (submarines and navy ships, currently building the Bismarck) so I guess he is more into it than the average dent doctor and quick in and out paint jobber.
His advice (similar to your built, Nick) was to take it all apart again and redo from the beginning and add some rust preventing paint on the sheet metal.

On the other hand, seemingly Lynn has got away without such preparation. I think to remember, Lynn, you‘ve sprayed Crystal, but did you used Craftmaster paint or some (modern) water based paint, as this is the only paint allowed (environmetal friendly ?) to be used today hereabouts.

Will have to think about it some more during the weekend, hopefully I get to a decent decision by Monday.

Thanks again

Cheers

Elwood
elwood-59
elwood-59

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Tender Paint Empty Re: Tender Paint

Post  Steve Traill Sun 24 Feb 2019, 8:48 am

I did the inside of the tender first with isoflex, do as much as you can before bolting in the floor, coat up the underneath of the floor leaving an 1 inch strip around the edge for the bolts. Once it's all coated up bolt the floor in and give the floor bolts a good couple of coats by memory! as you can't see what you are doing through the hole. A mirror on a stick & a torch will tell you what needs touching up. I lag on the isoflex so the bolts disappear under it, I've seen where it is put on a bit thin the bolts rust first so if they are well coated there's no problem.
Craftmaster paint is very good, the Purdy brushes I found are better for a canal boat than a small engine. If you are brushing it get a 1 inch artists soft brush from the Range with a curved end (doesn't leave brush marks). Apply the paint brushing in all directions at first until there is an even coverage, then lay it off in one direction only. Bolting bits too an engine stand helps as most of the paint can be applied to a horizontal surface which helps get rid of brush marks.
Make sure you are in a warm, reasonably dust free environment, don't wear an old sweater to paint in as you would be amazed how much dust comes off one of these!

Good luck.
Steve Traill
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Tender Paint Empty Re: Tender Paint

Post  elwood-59 Sun 24 Feb 2019, 2:03 pm

Hi Steve,

Having been there, putting tender on a car engine stand so I could have the panels level to the ground, I still did not manage to get a (in my eye) acceptable coat, hence my decision to have it spray painted by somebody who knows. After painting the inside, the tender will be isoflexed as pre-coating might interfere with paint drying (oven?). But as I altered the top (floor) part to have a larger opening (about 150 x 150mm) I hope I will be able to cover the inside with isoflex after paint finish.

The only uncertainity in it is the preparation of the metal joints, i.e. do I need to have the parts pained separately, would it be enough to do as car manufactueres do by putting (excessive) sealant between the joints or if it would be enough to spray paint the outside (as seemingly Lynn has done) and to isoflex the inside after paint has dried .

Cheers

Elwood
elwood-59
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Post  Steve Traill Sun 24 Feb 2019, 9:01 pm

I've always just bolted everything together and painted it as one unit, I guess if it was left outside most of the time rust might show through where there was just metal to metal. In reality they lead a pretty sheltered life and have oil wiped/leaked over them pretty liberally so I've never experienced a problem. I use Duck oil as a degunger and it seems to work pretty well and being oil based protects as well. Don't forget to grind away any paint on the inside of horn plates before you bolt them to the boiler and any paint around the threaded holes on the boiler. The paint will go soft with the heat then the horn plates will be loose, first sign is a cracked gauge glass!
The Isoflex is pretty thick and any minor gaps will soon be filled with that, the brake shaft that runs through the tender needs to be double checked to make sure it has Isoflex on it especially on the underneath which could be tricky. Cut most of the handle off a cheap paintbrush & use that.
Steve Traill
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Post  Midwest Steam Mon 25 Feb 2019, 12:47 pm

The side and back panels get bolted up then can be painted, the paint will act as a bit of a sealer. On my build I bolted up all the panels but leaving off the top of the water tank off to seal with FlexSeal. While it was apart I went ahead and brushed the flexseal on the bottom of the top panel and the brake tube itself, makes things a little easier in the long run. Looking back what I did was spray the first coat of primer on the tender and the tow brackets separately, then attached them to the tender and sealed the water tank.

Spraying gives some good results, it’s been my experience that thin coats give the best finish but the real secret is in the prep. You could try to thin down your paint to make it runnier, as Steve suggested apply paint with your brush and use another to lay off. There a video on YouTube that shows how to paint narrowboats using the 2 brush technique.

Regarding the metal to metal contact, it shouldn’t have any issues with rust. Having a thick sealant on the water tank and multiple layers of paint, there shouldn’t be any issues.
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Tender Paint Empty Re: Tender Paint

Post  elwood-59 Wed 27 Feb 2019, 6:00 pm

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. After long thoughts and consultation of the paint shop foreman I decided to bolt the tender sheet metal together as far as I can (including the top - „footplate“ - cover) and have it spray painted like that, means all the rivets will be in and painted in one go. Painter convinced me that leaving off the tow strap, paint them separately and assemble (careful!) only afterwards will be better in the long run.

I just have to do the sealing via the (small) top access cover, but as I already explained, I redesigned it and now have a rectangular hole 150 x 150 mm which should be enough to get my hand in with a brush and cover the whole inside, I hope. As the paint shop would prefer to „bake“ the paint for better durability, I was a bit uncertain if the Isofex applied would not start to give trouble while the paint hardens...

As I will be on a business trip next week I will only be able to prepare the tender for painting after my return. I‘ll kee you posted on the outcome Shocked  

Cheers

Elwood
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