Cumbrian 4" Showman

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Post  Mick1020 on Wed 03 May 2017, 10:49 pm

Looking Fantastic John

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Post  ejparrott on Wed 03 May 2017, 11:31 pm

Under the UK Model Engineering club scheme there is no reason to have the cladding off for a steam test. Can't comment on commercial inspectors.
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Post  Robfishman on Wed 03 May 2017, 11:47 pm

I guess as ever it depends on the boiler inspectors qualifications, but I read somewhere that the 4" boiler caracity was to big for most model engineering clubs to test, so we would need a commercial test? I could be wrong though.
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Post  JayBee on Thu 04 May 2017, 7:14 am

At the moment I am still looking for an inspector as the local clubs that I have spoken to only cover Copper boilers so are not covered for the STW miniatures.

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Post  lynnr on Thu 04 May 2017, 9:19 pm

Hi


My commercial (RSA now British Engineering) inspector wanted the cleading off for first inspection as it is a new boiler to the inspector. Since then all that he wants for cold inspection is, safety valves off, sight glass opened and a rod to show clear passages, pressure gauge off to test against his calibration, fusible plug out for inspection and all plugs out for boroscope.

He did complain the first time about boroscoping the boiler. My scope is better than his.

Once the boiler is due its next hydraulic, depending on internal cold inspection will be between year 7 and 10. Then the cleading will need to be off.

"In service" test. Is visual inspection all round for steam leaks. Lift safety valves with accumulation test. Sight glass blowing routine. Demonstration of both mechanical water pump and steam injector for water gain in the boiler.
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Post  JayBee on Fri 05 May 2017, 7:42 am

Thanks that is helpful

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Post  ejparrott on Sat 06 May 2017, 8:26 am

Under the club scheme we can test boilers up to 500bar/litres. We can go to 1100 Bar/Litres if we inform our respective federation that our inspector is doing it. That's a big boiler. If you took 180psi as an operating pressure, the boiler would have to be 40 litres capacity to tip over that mark, then to go to the 1100 absolute limit it would have to be 90 litres. Raising the pressure reduces the volume allowable, lowering the pressure increases the volume allowable. To date we at Rugby haven't bothered registering ourselves as over the 500bar/litre limit.
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Post  JayBee on Sun 21 May 2017, 10:03 am

ejparrott wrote:Under the club scheme we can test boilers up to 500bar/litres.  We can go to 1100 Bar/Litres if we inform our respective federation that our inspector is doing it.  That's a big boiler.  If you took 180psi as an operating pressure, the boiler would have to be 40 litres capacity to tip over that mark, then to go to the 1100 absolute limit it would have to be 90 litres.  Raising the pressure reduces the volume allowable, lowering the pressure increases the volume allowable.  To date we at Rugby haven't bothered registering ourselves as over the 500bar/litre limit.

Thanks for the detail and sorry for the delay. Is the boiler volume based on total volume i.e. with or without the deduction for the fire tubes and stays. By my quick calculation my boiler is 507Bar Lt based on the total volume but only 430Bar Lt if I deduct the stays and fire tubes. This will be the total water volume.
This is not far from Lynn's video giving I think 10 gal to fill the boiler from scratch.

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Post  JayBee on Sun 21 May 2017, 10:23 am

Work has now moved on to the drive and to the crank assembly. The gears required little other than dressing all the sharp edges and painting for those on show.

Cumbrian 4" Showman - Page 3 IMG_2750a_zpsqqbcwzgp

Alignment of the shaft took a little tweaking and time to get running nice an smooth.All the mating gears tested and checked for fit and movement. Once sorted final coat applied whilst off the engine and then back into place.

Cumbrian 4" Showman - Page 3 IMG_2715a_zpseqehisoc

Crank trial fitted and a little lapping brought everything along well.

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Valve eccentrics were all numbered and kept strictly in individual sets and orientation so that they would go back exactly the same each time.

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And a few happy hours later everything is smooth when tested off the engine. There may be further work once everything is in alignment on the engine. These would look fantastic all polished up but I am giong for a painted finish to be closer to Ex Mayor's scheme.

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Four little oil pots.

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And the the final look to see things so far. I will have to wait to fit the eccentric linkage.

Cumbrian 4" Showman - Page 3 IMG_2775a_zpsvyjzitmh

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Post  lynnr on Sun 21 May 2017, 6:03 pm

Looking excellent!

The water measurements I did was with a 2pt jug so should be very close. I only went to above the top nut so a few pints more needed to get to total boiler volume.
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Post  ejparrott on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:18 pm

JayBee wrote:
ejparrott wrote:Under the club scheme we can test boilers up to 500bar/litres.  We can go to 1100 Bar/Litres if we inform our respective federation that our inspector is doing it.  That's a big boiler.  If you took 180psi as an operating pressure, the boiler would have to be 40 litres capacity to tip over that mark, then to go to the 1100 absolute limit it would have to be 90 litres.  Raising the pressure reduces the volume allowable, lowering the pressure increases the volume allowable.  To date we at Rugby haven't bothered registering ourselves as over the 500bar/litre limit.

Thanks for the detail and sorry for the delay. Is the boiler volume based on total volume i.e. with or without the deduction for the fire tubes and stays. By my quick calculation my boiler is 507Bar Lt based on the total volume but only 430Bar Lt if I deduct the stays and fire tubes. This will be the total water volume.
This is not far from Lynn's video giving I think 10 gal to fill the boiler from scratch.

Completely full of water, no air, as if presenting for hydraulic test
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Post  JayBee on Sun 11 Jun 2017, 8:22 pm

The build is getting to the limit of my hydraulic table now, so time to put her on the wheels.

Cumbrian 4" Showman - Page 3 IMG_2767a_zpshr7bnmp7

Because the table won't go low enough I am going to have take the weight of the engine to get the trolley out. Front perch bracket is on an axle stand with the strop acting as extra security.

Cumbrian 4" Showman - Page 3 IMG_2812a_zpsdxdxltln

I doubled up at the back end as well. timber across the tow strap, jack in the middle and axle stands to make sure that it doesn't slip or tilt sideways.

Cumbrian 4" Showman - Page 3 IMG_2813a_zpsvjqnbbnb

A little bit at a time and she is down. Phew!

Cumbrian 4" Showman - Page 3 IMG_2814a_zps7z62thrq

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Post  JayBee on Sun 11 Jun 2017, 8:40 pm

More Nikel plating for the steering rod. I wasn't sure how to get the whole shaft into the plating solution until someone suggested a plastic gutter.

Cumbrian 4" Showman - Page 3 IMG_2592a_zpsqngzafph

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Post  JayBee on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 8:22 pm

A little while since my last update but things haven't been idle.

At my last post I had been busy on some of the motion work, progress has been made in getting everything lined up properly and they are really starting to come together but still a little more to do yet to complete.
I have also finished most of the work on the belly tank and the steering. Not yet sure about the steering chains though. On full lock it looks as though the chain on the tight side will rub on the inside of the front wheel. Having looked at some full size engines I have noticed that one or two have an additional chain across the engine linking the two chains as if to hold them together and off the front wheels when on lock. I'm not sure if anyone else has experienced this.

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Also still deciding whether to use wood or fibre for the lagging although these pieces in the photo are just to get the spacing for the cleading rings. The belly tank will have to come off to finalise the cladding.

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Post  JayBee on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 8:34 pm

Link chain on full size engine. I have just realised I think that this is to limit the steering lock not to hold the chains in. Embarassed

Cumbrian 4" Showman - Page 3 IMG_3475a_zpszn8cvs12

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Post  lynnr on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 8:51 pm

Hi

The lock chains as supplied need adjusting so that when the steering chain is close to the rim when on full lock. It will not cause a problem. Mine are set so the steering chain just touches the rim.
The cross chain on your second picture is in place of the chains to the belly tank as performs the same function.


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Post  JayBee on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 9:11 pm

Thanks Lynn, so they can be close but not quite touching. I will have a go.

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Post  JayBee on Tue 14 May 2019, 6:36 pm

Its quite a while since my last post.
There have been a variety of reasons for that starting with having problems with Photobucket and then personal issues, even so I have continued working away putting in the hours when I can on my engine and moving towards completion, so I thought now would be a good time to post an updated photo to help those starting or in the middle of assembling their kits to show that there will be a great feeling when you get something to rally or show after all the hard work that you have been putting in along the way.
Mine continues to be based on the full size Ex-Mayor and I have made a number of modifications to copy this engine which have sometimes taken more effort that the standard build.

Cumbrian 4" Showman - Page 3 M6q6oFn

This photo taken exhibiting at the National Model Engineering Exhibition at Doncaster.

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Post  Tim Watson on Wed 15 May 2019, 9:05 am

That is one exceedingly elegant SRL(S) build.  If you start to cover some miles on the road then putting in a spring tensioner on one side of the steering chain will help greatly.  I also made a longer steering rod out of stainless steel for Frederick with a decent comfortable steering knob.  It is possible to put grease nipples into your modified wheel greasing caps, makes life simpler.  Did you use gold leaf for the gold lining - it reflects very well.

Lovely job.

Tim
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Post  JayBee on Wed 15 May 2019, 5:39 pm

Thanks Tim for your comments. It is gold leaf, I couldn’t find any paint that gave the same effect,
With your experience of road runs I will take on board your suggestions at this stage I am very much a novice in running the engine. I had already found that one of the steering chain links that had been cut was opening on full lock so I have welded that up to strengthen it.
I am also in the process of building a bunker crane which will be removable for driving so I have been considering the access to all the operating controls. I have seen one mod. where the regulator was moved to the rear of the tender but I don’t think that will work for me. Because I am copying Ex-Mayor I am trying to balance between looks and practicality.

Cheers
John

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Post  BurrellSimplicity on Thu 16 May 2019, 1:23 pm

Can you tell us in a bit more detail about the gold leaf, did you use the tape roles of leaf or sheets? did you put an under colour like yellow or was it just the gold over the base paint?

I was looking at Tim's method but i'd like to know how you did yours as it's is very nice with clean edges.
I'm going to copy "Lord Nelson" as a paint job. I'm probably going to use RAL 3007 Black Red 2K Paint, then line, gold leaf and then 2K clear over the top.

it's does look fantastic though well done. now go and get it dirty Laughing

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Post  Tim Watson on Thu 16 May 2019, 5:55 pm

I would strongly recommend a regulator extension for road working and a similar design could probably be worked around the outside of the oliver if you were putting in the crane support.  We certainly couldn’t have covered the miles we have without it / or neck surgery.  It is outlined on page 9 of my thread.

I have a set of photos showing gold leafing in the painting section.

Tim


Last edited by Tim Watson on Thu 16 May 2019, 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Forgot I had already moister the pictures on gold leaf lining!)
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Post  JayBee on Thu 16 May 2019, 6:11 pm

Thanks.
I used Craftmaster paints for most of the paintwork both their enamel and their signwriting colours. 2k will certainly give a tough finish and has a fantastic gloss although I have only personally used 1k lacquer over two pack. Just do a test to make sure that there isn’t any reaction with the leaf application.
My method: Primer, Undercoat and Colour coats to start. Then black to give a black line on the inside of the gold, now imitation gold One Shot as a base colour for the leaf, onto this goes the gold size followed by the gold itself. The imitation gold paint helps if you get a slight flaw in the leaf(which I couldn’t avoid) Finally Craftmaster varnish on top to protect the leaf.

It is all very slow and laborious to do. I masked all the Gold areas although the other lining is a combination of brush, beugler and masking depending on where it was on the engine. The gold is all transfer leaf which I found easier to handle than loose leaf. Some is the ribbon transfer although i found that on some of the longer runs the leaf came adrift from the tissue making it impossible to handle so that in the end most of it is from the book sheets that are available but I then cut it into strips for use. I also found that some of the very thin leaf did not work well so Italian or double is the way to go. I did get some imitation gold which is much cheaper and does initially look identical, the risk is that it can tarnish.

Good luck with “Lord Nelson” it is a fantastic scheme and you are setting yourself a big challenge but will be very pleased with the end result.

Hope that this helps. If you need further info, happy to share my experience.

See below (sorry above) as well for Tim’s post
Cheers,
John

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Post  BurrellSimplicity on Thu 16 May 2019, 7:01 pm

Thanks to Both of you.

Tim it would be nice to see more leaf work i have read through your application guide and it's a really good start so thanks for posting that..

John you mention about the gold thickness and using Italian or double. can you tell me where you got your supply from? I know Tim used "gold Leaf Supplies" but it would be great to know. maybe you could add an update to Tim's post in the painting section. I think it's a great place to keep this stuff as it really does help the other builder that are looking on here..

I'm a while off yet from painting as i'm just on catch up with the new batch of road locos. It will also be a test base for the paint that will go on my 6" Burrell DCC I'm building "slowly" as that will also get the same paint and livery as the 4" STW DCC

Thanks again, your engines look great, Tim what a great job you are doing at keeping "Frederick" clean it's a tough job when you have rallies each weekend!

J



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Post  Tim Watson on Thu 16 May 2019, 7:27 pm

Thanks for the comment on cleaning. I like the engine to look tidy, but I’m not too OCD about it. Cleaning is a good way of finding out what needs fixing. Incidentally, I now wrap the Olivers and other brass fittings in cling film between shows: it saves a lot of polishing.

Tim
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