Ifor William Trailer and new winch
+6
sonick45
NorfolkModelSteam
Robfishman
Tim Watson
MrStationHouse
lynnr
10 posters
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Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Hi All
Just in case you maybe interested. I am designing and building a new winch mount for my Ifor Williams LM104 trailer.
I started last night with the production of the winch plate within Solidworks. So once the rest of the mount is designed if anyone wants a set of drawings just let me know.
The design will be capable of either bolt together or weld. It will use standard steel sections so no fancy cutting or fitting needed.
The winch I am using is a Warrior ATV3500. But mounting plates of different hole pitch can be designed in. I have a Optima Yellow Top battery for the winch and I plan mounting the battery within the winch mount for neatness and security. Cut off switch will be mounted in the frame as well.
Just in case you maybe interested. I am designing and building a new winch mount for my Ifor Williams LM104 trailer.
I started last night with the production of the winch plate within Solidworks. So once the rest of the mount is designed if anyone wants a set of drawings just let me know.
The design will be capable of either bolt together or weld. It will use standard steel sections so no fancy cutting or fitting needed.
The winch I am using is a Warrior ATV3500. But mounting plates of different hole pitch can be designed in. I have a Optima Yellow Top battery for the winch and I plan mounting the battery within the winch mount for neatness and security. Cut off switch will be mounted in the frame as well.
lynnr- Number of posts : 3242
Age : 55
Location : Highland, 4inch showman
Registration date : 2010-08-06
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Hi Lynn
How have you got on with the warrior winch, would you recommend it? I need to fit a winch and it is a good place to start.
Also how about the battery, does it hold its charge ok? do you just take it off to charge?
Thanks for your help
Simon
How have you got on with the warrior winch, would you recommend it? I need to fit a winch and it is a good place to start.
Also how about the battery, does it hold its charge ok? do you just take it off to charge?
Thanks for your help
Simon
MrStationHouse- Number of posts : 314
Location : Malmesbury
Registration date : 2011-04-26
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Hi Simon
The winch is first class. Does everything it needs to do without struggling. It is also small in form. I have taken the solenoid box off the motor and put it inside the A frame under the battery. So only 2 wires go up to motor and I now have a cover on the winch with only the fairlead open. No rain or crud in winch while driving or stationary. Control is by an optional extra addon of wireless remote. Allows easy out spool on power and good control while winching Crystal backwards up the ramps in to her pram. I also sometimes use to pull the wagons up as well if the ramps are wet, or the wagon extra heavy. The winch drum has a small diameter and the gearing is good to keep a slow wire speed and is auto braked so no roll back what so ever.
The battery is doing very well. I have installed a gray towing socket to charge battery while driving. During rally season the battery stays put. Only ever gets charged when going to and from events. Mind my closest event is 110 miles each way! If not using for an extended time I stick a mains charger, C-tek MSX5, on the battery and it keeps it in tip top condition as you can leave on all the time.
The larger battery in the garage for the driveway winch also has the C-tek on it basically all the time except during winch use. Big warn 9800 bolted down in the back of the garage to winch Crystal up the drive when out of steam. About a 1:7 ish slope and over 50ft long. Also used to winch the iffor trailer up as well.
The garage installation
The winch is first class. Does everything it needs to do without struggling. It is also small in form. I have taken the solenoid box off the motor and put it inside the A frame under the battery. So only 2 wires go up to motor and I now have a cover on the winch with only the fairlead open. No rain or crud in winch while driving or stationary. Control is by an optional extra addon of wireless remote. Allows easy out spool on power and good control while winching Crystal backwards up the ramps in to her pram. I also sometimes use to pull the wagons up as well if the ramps are wet, or the wagon extra heavy. The winch drum has a small diameter and the gearing is good to keep a slow wire speed and is auto braked so no roll back what so ever.
The battery is doing very well. I have installed a gray towing socket to charge battery while driving. During rally season the battery stays put. Only ever gets charged when going to and from events. Mind my closest event is 110 miles each way! If not using for an extended time I stick a mains charger, C-tek MSX5, on the battery and it keeps it in tip top condition as you can leave on all the time.
The larger battery in the garage for the driveway winch also has the C-tek on it basically all the time except during winch use. Big warn 9800 bolted down in the back of the garage to winch Crystal up the drive when out of steam. About a 1:7 ish slope and over 50ft long. Also used to winch the iffor trailer up as well.
The garage installation
lynnr- Number of posts : 3242
Age : 55
Location : Highland, 4inch showman
Registration date : 2010-08-06
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Helpful as ever thanks Lynn. Will order one straight away, what size battery did you go for?
One other question -do you get on ok with the winch centrally mounted and putting the engine on one side and the trailers on the other?
Much appreciated
Simon
One other question -do you get on ok with the winch centrally mounted and putting the engine on one side and the trailers on the other?
Much appreciated
Simon
MrStationHouse- Number of posts : 314
Location : Malmesbury
Registration date : 2011-04-26
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Hi
Battery from Here
Winch from Here
I use a pulley block from Here.
This is attached to the cargo track embedded in the trailer.
She is the other way round now but you get the idea.
This keeps the wire on the winch center line so does a good spool when pulling Crystal up with the offset. I use the closest tow point to the trailer center line when rigged up, Crystal goes on backwards now. Better balance with everything else and get more space at the front of the trailer as the engine sits further to the back, the front of the canopy is 2" of the rear cover. Using the engine front tow hitch with bottle screws and chain to secure.
Battery from Here
Winch from Here
I use a pulley block from Here.
This is attached to the cargo track embedded in the trailer.
She is the other way round now but you get the idea.
This keeps the wire on the winch center line so does a good spool when pulling Crystal up with the offset. I use the closest tow point to the trailer center line when rigged up, Crystal goes on backwards now. Better balance with everything else and get more space at the front of the trailer as the engine sits further to the back, the front of the canopy is 2" of the rear cover. Using the engine front tow hitch with bottle screws and chain to secure.
lynnr- Number of posts : 3242
Age : 55
Location : Highland, 4inch showman
Registration date : 2010-08-06
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Brilliant thanks - that 48ah battery is that the one you bought?
MrStationHouse- Number of posts : 314
Location : Malmesbury
Registration date : 2011-04-26
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
I would strongly recommend a nylon winch rope: much safer to use. I have also found the radio control for the winch a boon. I use the winch to pull the trailer back into its parked position at home via a snatch block and loop set into the floor at the back.
Tim
Tim
Tim Watson- Number of posts : 585
Location : Herts
Registration date : 2008-07-02
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Interesting - what makes it safer?
What size battery do you have Tim
What size battery do you have Tim
MrStationHouse- Number of posts : 314
Location : Malmesbury
Registration date : 2011-04-26
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
It doesn't store energy like a wire rope and spools much better. Not sure on battery, but probably 48Ah. I use a solar panel to keep it topped up. The Warrior winch would probably work well on an aircraft carrier.
Tim
Tim
Tim Watson- Number of posts : 585
Location : Herts
Registration date : 2008-07-02
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Thanks Tim, that makes sense, I was looking at a solar panel to keep it topped up, do you have just the panel ? I was wondering if I needed a controller?
Do you think the Warrior winch is too big then?
Do you think the Warrior winch is too big then?
MrStationHouse- Number of posts : 314
Location : Malmesbury
Registration date : 2011-04-26
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
The main concern with winch wire is if it breaks the steel wire holds a lot of potential energy when under load and synthetic does not. So IF it was to snap the wire will backlash and MIGHT cause injury. Synthetic basically drops dead with little rope causing injury. But your load is still heading south either way.
I am use to wire and it behaviour. Yes I have had a winch wire singing under load during a demonstration. The wire was then cut by a shaped charge to get a backlash in to "analogue" legs. Quite serious injury.
if you are loading quite high then you would drop a coat or blanket over the wire and if very long winch pull a couple or more. This will kill the potential energy very effectively upon catastrophic cable failure.
The forces on a cable pulling the engine up in to the trailer are very much within the lower 30% of the max safe working load. Also remember it is up a slope but has little rolling resistance. Yes synthetic has over double the SWL per diameter but has to be handled with more care. Strand chaffing is more problematic also contamination like being spooled wet or getting wet causing mould to form, problematic to health by airborne spores. Yes wire will corrode but can be proofed by lubrication. Both will wear out and require changing at some point. If in doubt - replace.
It's a debate that has and will go on for years.
Golden rule. Treat ALL winch activity with respect and instill safe practice. Mitigate possible risk. Like during the "heavy" portion of winching up in to th trailer. I am outside at the side of the trailer diagonally opposite the winch wire with the engine and the heavy tarpaulin side and trailer side panels are between us as well. When the engine is rear wheel crested I do move inside to steer but the loads at that point are a fraction of the peak. I can push the wire to the floor or sideways by hand easily. And there is less than 4ft of wire off spool.
It's up to you.
I am use to wire and it behaviour. Yes I have had a winch wire singing under load during a demonstration. The wire was then cut by a shaped charge to get a backlash in to "analogue" legs. Quite serious injury.
if you are loading quite high then you would drop a coat or blanket over the wire and if very long winch pull a couple or more. This will kill the potential energy very effectively upon catastrophic cable failure.
The forces on a cable pulling the engine up in to the trailer are very much within the lower 30% of the max safe working load. Also remember it is up a slope but has little rolling resistance. Yes synthetic has over double the SWL per diameter but has to be handled with more care. Strand chaffing is more problematic also contamination like being spooled wet or getting wet causing mould to form, problematic to health by airborne spores. Yes wire will corrode but can be proofed by lubrication. Both will wear out and require changing at some point. If in doubt - replace.
It's a debate that has and will go on for years.
Golden rule. Treat ALL winch activity with respect and instill safe practice. Mitigate possible risk. Like during the "heavy" portion of winching up in to th trailer. I am outside at the side of the trailer diagonally opposite the winch wire with the engine and the heavy tarpaulin side and trailer side panels are between us as well. When the engine is rear wheel crested I do move inside to steer but the loads at that point are a fraction of the peak. I can push the wire to the floor or sideways by hand easily. And there is less than 4ft of wire off spool.
It's up to you.
lynnr- Number of posts : 3242
Age : 55
Location : Highland, 4inch showman
Registration date : 2010-08-06
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
The little ATV 3500 winch is for on the trailer.
My battery is the one shown directly from the link. It also powers other things while camping.
My battery is the one shown directly from the link. It also powers other things while camping.
lynnr- Number of posts : 3242
Age : 55
Location : Highland, 4inch showman
Registration date : 2010-08-06
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Hi Lynn
Hope you're well.
I'm looking to buy a trailer and wondered what your trailer bed size is. It seems the LM104 may have been discontinued as its not in the catalogue and I can't find the tech spec on line
Many thanks
Rob.
Hope you're well.
I'm looking to buy a trailer and wondered what your trailer bed size is. It seems the LM104 may have been discontinued as its not in the catalogue and I can't find the tech spec on line
Many thanks
Rob.
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Hi Rob.
Think you want this link. LM105 still on the books.
http://www.iwt.co.uk/products/flatbed/lt-and-lm/?tab=spec#tab
10x5.5ft twin axial. Spring for the 8ft Aluminium ramps as makes loading so much easier. Angles etc.
Think you want this link. LM105 still on the books.
http://www.iwt.co.uk/products/flatbed/lt-and-lm/?tab=spec#tab
10x5.5ft twin axial. Spring for the 8ft Aluminium ramps as makes loading so much easier. Angles etc.
lynnr- Number of posts : 3242
Age : 55
Location : Highland, 4inch showman
Registration date : 2010-08-06
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Thanks Lynn I suspected that would be the one. New car gets delivered in two weeks then I'll get it ordered.
Thanks also for the info on the ramps, was going for the galv steel, but will change to the Alu
Thanks also for the info on the ramps, was going for the galv steel, but will change to the Alu
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Oh forgot.
Put an electric winch on with wireless remote. Hand crank is ok but a lot of work if by yourself.
Put an electric winch on with wireless remote. Hand crank is ok but a lot of work if by yourself.
lynnr- Number of posts : 3242
Age : 55
Location : Highland, 4inch showman
Registration date : 2010-08-06
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Hi Lynn, do you have a picture of your engine and wagons on the trailer? I’m building the roller, have a wagon on order and need to start thinking about how I’m going to transport it all!
NorfolkModelSteam- Number of posts : 94
Location : Downham Market
Registration date : 2015-10-15
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
I do someplace. Just need to find them.
lynnr- Number of posts : 3242
Age : 55
Location : Highland, 4inch showman
Registration date : 2010-08-06
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Hi
This is the only one I can lay to at the moment
Crystal and all her bits is a tight fit. She is on with 1/4" space to the side panels. The wagons are about 1" from the back wheel and about 1/2" off the side panel of the trailer. The roller is definitely thinner and a lot shorter so the LM105 10x5.5ft will easily fit a roller etc. If you only have 1 trailer you would even get away with the 8ft x 5.5ft.
This is the only one I can lay to at the moment
Crystal and all her bits is a tight fit. She is on with 1/4" space to the side panels. The wagons are about 1" from the back wheel and about 1/2" off the side panel of the trailer. The roller is definitely thinner and a lot shorter so the LM105 10x5.5ft will easily fit a roller etc. If you only have 1 trailer you would even get away with the 8ft x 5.5ft.
lynnr- Number of posts : 3242
Age : 55
Location : Highland, 4inch showman
Registration date : 2010-08-06
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
I hope you dont mind Lynn... found these...
sonick45- Number of posts : 511
Location : Barton-Le-Clay (Beds)
Registration date : 2009-01-26
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Thats them
Although the engine is round the other way facing backwards as the balance is better and position allows the water cart to sit behind the engine at the front corner of the trailer.
Although the engine is round the other way facing backwards as the balance is better and position allows the water cart to sit behind the engine at the front corner of the trailer.
lynnr- Number of posts : 3242
Age : 55
Location : Highland, 4inch showman
Registration date : 2010-08-06
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Thank you! That certainly give me a a good idea! I’m going to Bloxham next month so Hoping for plenty of advise on everything!
NorfolkModelSteam- Number of posts : 94
Location : Downham Market
Registration date : 2015-10-15
Trailers-Hazelwood
I have built an STW 6" Foden, finished 2 years ago, and looked at some trailers to transport it. Eventually went to Hazelwood trailers near Evesham In Worcestershire http://hazlewoodtrailers.co.uk/
They are a small firm and couldnt have been more helpful. They built me a suitable trailer to my specific needs at a very reasonable price.
The 6" Foden has quite a low ground clearance and it is important the leading edge of the front water tank clears the ramp hump when loading/unloading. The trailer came with an electric winch
They are a small firm and couldnt have been more helpful. They built me a suitable trailer to my specific needs at a very reasonable price.
The 6" Foden has quite a low ground clearance and it is important the leading edge of the front water tank clears the ramp hump when loading/unloading. The trailer came with an electric winch
Revolving- Number of posts : 8
Age : 80
Location : Worcestershire
Registration date : 2011-09-10
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Well after having had the trailer for a few years now. I finally got fed up with moving the spare wheel around. So finally settled on a new bracket on the front of the trailer
The wheel is spaced off slightly so the canvas is not trapped or rubbing. It also makes the empty trailer slightly nose heavy so makes manual moving easier as by lifting the jockey wheel up the rear set of wheels lift off the ground to make easy manoeuvring.
The wheel is spaced off slightly so the canvas is not trapped or rubbing. It also makes the empty trailer slightly nose heavy so makes manual moving easier as by lifting the jockey wheel up the rear set of wheels lift off the ground to make easy manoeuvring.
lynnr- Number of posts : 3242
Age : 55
Location : Highland, 4inch showman
Registration date : 2010-08-06
Re: Ifor William Trailer and new winch
Lynn,
What size is your turnbuckle and chains that you use for securing? I'm thinking they would need to be 8mm or 10mm.
Regards
Alan
What size is your turnbuckle and chains that you use for securing? I'm thinking they would need to be 8mm or 10mm.
Regards
Alan
Alan Grant- Number of posts : 29
Age : 48
Location : Aberdeenshire
Registration date : 2013-09-06
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